Does someone has a schermatic for a sucesfull proven 5e3 with added Reverb ?

[kagliostro]

I'm looking on behalf of a friend who would like to add reverb to a 5e3 (possibly with only one tube)

Thanks

Franco

[Williamblake]

Word on the street is you can put a reverb unit in front of a 5E3. scnr

[tubeswell]

… add reverb to a 5e3 (possibly with only one tube…

tubenit has built loads of amps with one tube reverb (i.e., with a tube that has 2 triodes, or triode + pentode). Try searching some of his posts.


The goal is getting the right balance of wet/dry signal gain.

[TIMBO]

Hey mate, This works well
5B3 Variant Deluxe (el34world.com)

[Greenwichpaul]

https://el34world.com/Forum/index.php?topic=19866.0

https://el34world.com/Forum/index.php?topic=19925.0

http://sluckeyamps.com/tdr/tdr.htm

https://el34world.com/Forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=19866.0;attach=56656;image

[sluckey]

http://sluckeyamps.com/tdr/tdr.htm

FYI, my TDR is not a 5E3 Deluxe. It is a single channel AB763 Deluxe Rever sans tremolo. The only thing tweed about it is the cab.

[Leevi]

I have successfully used the following way

Correction: the resistor stated in the schematic must be 200K instead of 200R

/Leevi

[sluckey]

I have successfully used the following way

Is that 200R really a 200K?

[tubenit]

You may find some ideas that could be adapted to a 5E3 in these two schematics of successful one tube reverbs in a topology that has some similarities to a 5E3.


With the insertion point around a tone stack and the volume pot, the reverb becomes more interactive but it is somewhat stronger. With the reverb after the 2nd gain stage and prior to the phase invertor, it is somewhat more subtle but still nice, IMO.


With respect, Tubenit

[Leevi]

Is that 200R really a 200K?

200K, sorry for the typing error


/Leevi

[sluckey]

I have successfully used the following way

Also, looking at your one tube reverb schematic, that 470Ω connected to the reverb pot is probably 470K. And for sure, the pot wiper is not connected to ground!

[kagliostro]

Ehi friends, THANKS

now I've a lot of good documentation to which I can refer

I'll spend some time to read all those realizations

at first I can only say (because my eyes were there on those links) that I like TIMBO's 6SL7 version and the herethic 5e3 + Reverb by Sluckey (heretic because it is an AB763  )

---

Risto, did you build it and all was fine ?

Can you give your approval to this ?




To which nodes did you connected the Transformer and the V4b 100K Plate Resistor ?

---

Many Thanks

Franco

[passaloutre]

Not strictly a Deluxe, but I’m really satisfied with my Bassman Preamp married to a Princeton-style reverb and a Tweed Deluxe power section.

You’ll want to play around with the mixing resistors. I started with the ones in the attachment to avoid attenuating the preamp too much, but I ended up with a 2M on the dry side and a 470k on the wet side, closer to the original Princeton spec. It’s very splashy now and still has plenty of crunch.

[Leevi]

I have successfully used the following way

Also, looking at your one tube reverb schematic, that 470Ω connected to the reverb pot is probably 470K. And for sure, the pot wiper is not connected to ground!

Sorry, there are errors as well. The resistor from the reverb pot should be 470K or bigger/smaller depending on how much reverb effect/volume you want to have. 470R does not work
The wiper should not go to the ground. Corrected schematic attached.


/Leevi

[Leevi]

Ehi friends, THANKS

now I've a lot of good documentation to which I can refer

I'll spend some time to read all those realizations

at first I can only say (because my eyes were there on those links) that I like TIMBO's 6SL7 version and the herethic 5e3 + Reverb by Sluckey (heretic because it is an AB763  )

---

Risto, did you build it and all was fine ?

Can you give your approval to this ?




To which nodes did you connected the Transformer and the V4b 100K Plate Resistor ?

---

Many Thanks

Franco

Have used this with both 5E3 and 5D3 and it works fine. Note it is not a so called surf reverb.
The 5E3 correction you did is right. The resistor value across the reverb can be 200K or 220K or even more.
Have also attached the corrected one tube schematic where you see the voltage nodes.


/Leevi

[DummyLoad]

Hey mate, This works well
5B3 Variant Deluxe (el34world.com)

Is that paraphase wired correctly?


--Pete

[TIMBO]

Hey DL
I'll have to check the amp as that is a MIStake on my behalf

[tubenit]

If I were going to try and add a one tube reverb to a 5E3, I might attempt this. I would anticipate that this would work but I have not actually built it.

I'd use a 12DW7. I'd have a dwell pot & this can be on the under/back side of the chassis which is where I usually have them on tweed style chassis. I find the dwell pots to be useful.

Because the one tube reverb has a 1MA Reverb pot and a 330k resistor, one doesn't need a large "separation" or mixing resistor (not sure correct term?) like on Fender which uses the 3.3M resistor.    The added 100k resistor prior to the mixing resistor would perhaps lessen the interaction of the reverb with the volume pots?


With respect, Tubenit

[kagliostro]

Thanks for the info friends

---

@ Tubenit (Thanks)

I'll pass your proposal to the guy who is interested to mod his homemade 5e3, I like the idea of the dwell pot

 ..... this last times we (on this side of the pond) noticed that the price of a 12DW7 is way higher than in the past and is not easy to have one under hand on the available tubes, this is the only contraindication on his use

---

About Leevi's solution I was thinking to suggest to my friend to use a pair of pot connected as rheostat, one in place of the 200/220K resistor and the other in place of the 470K resistor, this to experimentally find the better values usable, then swap them for proper values resistors

Franco

[Williamblake]

Well now i feel guilty about my sneaky and unproductive reply but what i wanted to say is there have been plenty and in my opinion futile attempts to add reverb to an existing amp and putting the reverb in front of the amp not only gives you reverb, it also saves your amp. I put quite a mile of footwork to arrive on that conclusion and for some reason you may not agree to, reverb sounds best if applied first in the signal chain.

[tubenit]

If your effort is to get others to consider an alternative to adding onboard reverb, I think that's a reasonable argument to put on the table.  If your effort is to say adding reverb to an existing amp is a mistake, I respectfully disagree.

 

there have been plenty and in my opinion futile attempts to add reverb to an existing amp

I know of many successes in adding reverb to different amp designs. So far, I've personally not had a failure adding reverb to an amp design that I can remember. In ARCHIVES there is considerable information available to help individuals who wish to attempt this. There have certainly been quite a few success stories posted on the forum in this endeavor.

and putting the reverb in front of the amp not only gives you reverb, it also saves your amp.

I don't know what this means?  How does putting reverb in the front of an amp save the amp? There are plenty of 50 yr old amps with reverb integrated within the amp.  If you're simply implying it means you can keep the amp from experiencing any changes ......... then OK. Saving an amp sounds like your trying to protect it from harm.

I put quite a mile of footwork to arrive on that conclusion and for some reason you may not agree to, reverb sounds best if applied first in the signal chain.

Sure, this can definitely be a preference thing.  If you like reverb in front of an amp that's great.    I've run my Digitech RV-7 reverb pedal in front of an amp and enjoyed the tone when playing "clean". I thought it sounded quite nice. However, I prefer it further down the signal chain especially when using overdrive. Simply my preference. The only time I don't have my reverb pedal in an effects loop is when I play a friend's Fender Champ.


There are individuals who prefer time signature effects (reverb, delay, chorus, flanger, etc ) to be later in the signal chain. That's why you see amps with passive and active effects loops further down the signal chain.

I personally prefer overdrive to be reverbed than reverb to be overdriven. That doesn't mean the tone I prefer is "better". I'm not inferring that. There are simply different personal preferences for tone. I certainly would not "caution" someone from using a reverb pedal upfront. It's a fine way of adding reverb. And you can simply move that pedal from one amp to another one. Good argument for considering a reverb pedal.

With respect, Tubenit

[Williamblake]

I do not consider a reverb that has to be dialed in a success story. I would want he whole range of the reverb to be usable and i do not want to be limited in a way that i have to dial in the reverb to sound decent. Putting reverb to an existing amp leaves you in a place where you have to adjust your settings to something that is usable. Using a reverb for reverbing and an amp for amping gives you much more to chose from. If you get what you want from an integrated reverb that of course is a success story.
Put differently, if i go to an amp shop and test out (Fender) amps with integrated reverb i have a lot of dialing in to do and it might sound good but with a dedicated reverb unit you can have it all.
Adding reverb to an amp that did not have it in the first place leaves you in an even smaller space.
My record shelf is filled with bands playing deluxe reverbs and i love it.
What i really want to say is adding reverb to an amp is a myth, you have to realize you are building a new amp. Well, i had to realize that. But what do i know?

[kagliostro]

What i really want to say is adding reverb to an amp is a myth, you have to realize you are building a new amp

I simply don't agree with you

Franco

[HotBluePlates]

... this can definitely be a preference thing.  If you like reverb in front of an amp that's great. ... However, I prefer it further down the signal chain especially when using overdrive. Simply my preference. ...

I know Tubenit has successfully added reverb to many amps, for many years now.

I would point out though that a 5E3 Deluxe is mostly likely to distort at the output tubes first, so I'm doubtful there is a significant difference between reverb before the Input jacks vs reverb in the preamp.

That said, I was originally going to point to Ampeg's R-12-R Reverberocket as an excellent-sounding reverb added to what is already a sort-of-tweed Deluxe circuit (but using a paraphase inverter instead of a cathodyne).  However, it is probably not a good candidate for modifying an existing amp, since it requires 2 extra dual-triodes to implement.

[passaloutre]

... this can definitely be a preference thing.  If you like reverb in front of an amp that's great. ... However, I prefer it further down the signal chain especially when using overdrive. Simply my preference. ...

I know Tubenit has successfully added reverb to many amps, for many years now.

I would point out though that a 5E3 Deluxe is mostly likely to distort at the output tubes first, so I'm doubtful there is a significant difference between reverb before the Input jacks vs reverb in the preamp.

That said, I was originally going to point to Ampeg's R-12-R Reverberocket as an excellent-sounding reverb added to what is already a sort-tweed Deluxe circuit (but using a paraphase inverter instead of a cathodyne).  However, it is probably not a good candidate for modifying an existing amp, since it requires 2 extra dual-triodes to implement.

I would posit that the output tubes are most likely to distort on note transients, but less so on the release, which is where you hear the reverb, and due to the nature of reverb, that signal is spread out with a lot less transient. I wonder if this is why tubenit and others (including myself) have been able to satisfactorily add reverb to a number of amps where it “shouldn’t work”. Of course a Master volume can also be useful to sequester the distortion to the preamp, but not necessary at reasonable levels.

Certainly prepared to be wrong, but I’m fully satisfied with the Princeton-ish reverb in my Bassman/Deluxe-ish amp.

[tubenit]

I do not consider a reverb that has to be dialed in a success story.

I am curious ............ does whatever you use for reverb have potentiometers and knobs with increments on it?  Do you turn or dial those knobs to a sound you like?

if i go to an amp shop and test out (Fender) amps with integrated reverb i have a lot of dialing in to do

I will own that I have not played all the Fender amps with integrated reverb. I'm trying to think of one I've played that had more than just a single knob for the reverb pot.  It didn't seem to me like dialing one knob involved "a lot of dialing".


With respect, Tubenit