My Neck jig - fret and fretboard leveling tool

[EL34]

Recently my Ibanez JS1200CA starting fretting out in a couple places when doing bends.
The fret tops got flat and wide to the point that notes just died when doing bends.
Some notes were just not ringing out because the next fret up the neck was higher than the flatter fret below it.

I dreaded the thought of shipping the guitar to a qualified Luthier.
There's no one I know of around here.

And so I started looking into doing a fret level and re-crown myself.
There's tons of info out there on other forums and some cool video's on You-tube.
Looked like I just need some good tools and a bit of skill to get the job done.

After looking around the Stew-Mac web site I spotted the main tools I would need.
Although you can go crazy and get way more tools, I settled on these tools I would need.

A neck jig to hold the neck perfectly flat while leveling the frets.
A notched straight edge so you can tell when the fretboard is perfectly flat.
A long precision ground fret leveling bar with some 320 grit Stik-it paper
A diamond fret file.

$370 for the Stew-Mac neck jig??? - I can make that for $30
Not counting the dial indicator, I already owned that tool.

$72 for a notched straight edge??? - I can make that for free on my CNC machine

I sprang for the diamond fret file because I don't have anything that can come close to doing that job.

I sprang for the 16" fret leveling tool and stik-it paper because this tool is fairly critical in gettting nice level fret tops and it was not too expensive.
The big heavy fret level tool was really nice, I am glad I purchased it.


I didn't buy a radius block because I was real careful not change the radius of the frets.
I can make other tools on my CNC machine like radius gauges, etc that you use for setups.

I practiced on my heavy caster first to get the feel of how the whole fret level thing should work.
Then I did my Ibanez
All I can is WOW, my Ibanez plays and feels even better than when it was new.
The notes all ring out loud and clear now and it play like a million bucks.

I set up a web page with some big pictures and more info here
The neck jig tool and the other tools are shown on this page.
http://www.el34world.com/Misc/Music/Guitar1.htm

[simonallaway]

Nicely done! The luthier I used to work for had his own homebrew jig too, also modeled on the StewMac jig. And as you experienced, once you've leveled frets with one you cannot imagine doing it without. Takes all the guess-work out of it.

Now I am inspired to build my own!    Must finish my amp first 

[EL34]

I was a bit shy about doing a fret level, but now I want to do all my guitars because of how nice they play afterwards.

If you have a bit of skill it's not hard to do at all.
You just have to take your time and don't rush the job.

[tubenit]

Very nicely done!!  I'm impressed. Looks like you did a great job with it.  I like the semi hollow body guitar you have there. A good fret job makes a difference.

with respect, Jeff

[EL34]

Thanks Jeff

What semi hollow?

[simonallaway]

I think he meant the picture of, what might be, Dan Erlewine trying to sell us StikIt pads. 

[EL34]

Ah, ok,
Forgot I had posted that pic from the Stew-Mac site.
That pic shows the leveling bar I bought.

I also had to buy the Stik-it for $23, which kind of sucked.
You only need a 18" long piece and it last forever.
I think the roll I had to buy was 25 feet or something crazy.
I looked around the web, but could not find a smaller, cheaper roll.

It's way nicer than just plain ole sandpaper and it has the adhesive backing

[G._Hoffman]

Just for the record, the neck jig is completely unnecessary.  We've probably done over 600 fret jobs a year for the last 39 years or so, and have never used one on a single guitar.  You will never find anyone who does better fret work than our repair guys.  Its just one of those things Dan likes to come up with.  About 1/3 of them are actually useful (though that 1/3 are typically phenomenally successful, and his tool for fixing bridge plates is one of the best ideas ever!) 


Gabriel

[simonallaway]

Just for the record, the neck jig is completely unnecessary. 

Isn't that what Edison said about his diode? 

[EL34]

Just for the record, the neck jig is completely unnecessary

Yeah, well maybe for you, but I had no way to keep the neck flat as I worked on it.

I lowered the middle rods and left the headstock rod in place.
Then I laid the leveling bar on the neck.
The high frets pushed the neck down out of the flat position way beyond flat.

It worked awesome for me with only .0015 flex in the neck as I worked and so I am sticking with it.

I see tons of those jigs being used by shops everywhere so they can't be useless to everyone out there.
Use whatever works for you.

I suppose a long flat leveling bar is useless also?
maybe use one that covers just 3 or 4 frets? 

[rafe]

My Tele is over due I've been thinking of doing it myself this time, so your timing is perfect Doug. There is a pretty good luthier near me (20 miles)  but I'm thinking I can and should do it do it my self.....I'll let him refret it when needed though. I think I'll have to pass on the neck jig though probably build something to hold it in place  

[EL34]

I saw plenty of techs that used a roller block to hold the neck.
That's probably good enough.

I also saw lots of people that were using straight edges that sat on top of the frets to try and get the neck flat.
I liked the idea of a straight edge that fit down over the frets and sat right on the fingerboard and it was easy for me to make on the CNC

I am sure you can do a good job with whatever you use.

[jjasilli]

I was a bit shy about doing a fret level. . .

This is very inspiring.  Fortunately in Brooklyn, NY I'm surrounded by good guitar techs.  But it's still a drag to use a tech when you have a number of guitars.  And clearly we're all DIY oriented here.  But I'm such a klutz when it comes to fine finishing work.  E.g., string spacing to me is a nightmare.  So I too remain shy about fret work. 

[EL34]

Yeah, I would say take it to a good guitar guy if you are on the fence about doing it.

I played the Ibanez again today for a few hours.
It feels so very different and the notes sound way better, not as choked off as before.

[G._Hoffman]

I suppose a long flat leveling bar is useless also?

For the frets themselves?  Yeah.  We use a couple 12" long flat files we mounted on handles about 38 years ago.  We use a 24" level for leveling fingerboards when the frets are out, but those are seeing less use now because THESE work so much faster.  (Not better, mind you , but certainly faster, and time is money!) 

I honestly don't see the point behind the fret jigs.  You set the truss rod as straight as you can get it, and then level the frets from there.  What more do you want?  I mean, at least half the point behind a fret dress is to bring the high frets down to level, and frequently you need to correct a small amount of twist or bow.  Forcing that bow out of the neck is not a good idea - you are trying to correct that geometry problem in the frets.

The tools that are absolutely required, though, are pretty simple.  A really nice 24" straight edge, a truss rod tool, a way to level the frets (we like our files, but Frank Ford uses a nice flat plane body with sandpaper, and if you want to use a level go for it), a big 8" mill bastard file with the edges ground smooth to recrown the frets (those fret files are nice for shaping the ends of the frets, but are useless for recrowning the frets - they leave the wrong shape!  A big flat file is faster and does a better job), something to protect the fingerboard (our favorites are New York City subway passes!), a bunch of sandpaper, some OOOO steel wool, and some mineral or linseed oil. 


Gabriel

[Ritchie200]

Hey Doug,
How did you follow the fret radius as you take the high spots down?  Do you move the fret leveling tool up and down the neck or across the neck (following the radius)?  Do you have to be careful to keep from banging the nut?  Speaking of the nut, did you have to re-grove it to maintain string distance to the first fret?  How many thousandths do you think you took off?

But my most important question is....how many do you have to do to be good enough to do it with the strings still on - like in your pic?

Jim

[G._Hoffman]

Hey Doug,
How did you follow the fret radius as you take the high spots down?  Do you move the fret leveling tool up and down the neck or across the neck (following the radius)?  Do you have to be careful to keep from banging the nut?  Speaking of the nut, did you have to re-grove it to maintain string distance to the first fret?  How many thousandths do you think you took off?

But my most important question is....how many do you have to do to be good enough to do it with the strings still on - like in your pic?

Jim

Generally, I think of it as being three plans - one on the treble edge, one on the bass edge, and one down the middle.  That generally does the trick.  You take the nut off before you start.  And yes, you must readjust the nut if you want the setup to be right, unless you are doing an uncommonly light fret dress.  Similarly, if you've refret a guitar you will usually have to either shim the nut or make a new one. 

And as far as I'm concerned, you will never be very good at fret work until you've done about 100 fret dresses.  That doesn't mean you can't do a fair to good job without the experience, just that you don't have the control needed to deal with unusual situations.  What ever anybody tells you, it is a very high skill job.  It is probably the only part of building a guitar I actually think is difficult.  Everything else is just taking your time, but fret work needs muscle memory, which you have to earn.


Gabriel

[EL34]

Hey Ritchie,

Maintaining the radius is just something you have to be careful about as you work
My fingerboard radius is 250mm on the Ibanez which is a 9.84 inch radius

You can actually buy long radius sanding beams, but they are really expensive
Mostly for common radius out there like fender, etc
http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Fretting_supplies/Leveling/Fretboard_Radius-sanding_Blocks.html

The fret/fingerboard levelers that I used are more reasonable
http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tools/Special_tools_for:_Neck,_fingerboard/Fret_Fingerboard_Levelers.html

You move the bar back and forth a few times and slowly move it across the fret board radius
You can't stay in one spot way longer than another spot.
The leveling bar from Stew-Mac is very heavy and so all you do is move it back and forth parallel to the string direction.
You don't have to push down on the bar, you just have to keep it upright and parallel to the strings

Applying magic marker to the frets lets you see exactly how much material is being removed and where it is being removed.
The tops of the frets go from black to shiny and you can see exactly how flat or not flat the tops are getting.

It took quite a while to get the problem areas on my neck flat again.
As I started sanding, the bar was removing material from the frets that did not have much wear.
The low frets areas that were giving me problems were were mostly all around 10th to 13th frets
That area stood out right away after just a few strokes with the sanding beam.

I noticed a few other areas that were not level also, but not as bad as the area that was giving me note problems.

I have never thought much about fret leveling before, but now I am sold after I see how drastically it can change the way a guitar plays.
Of course, your freboard should be level also and the neck should not be twisted, etc

The Strat that I used as my test subject has a horrible neck and it plays much better now, but it really needs a finger board leveling.

[jjasilli]

And as far as I'm concerned, you will never be very good at fret work until you've done about 100 fret dresses.  That doesn't mean you can't do a fair to good job without the experience, just that you don't have the control needed to deal with unusual situations.  What ever anybody tells you, it is a very high skill job.  It is probably the only part of building a guitar I actually think is difficult.  Everything else is just taking your time, but fret work needs muscle memory, which you have to earn.

That's what my guitar tech says; plus that he's been doing it for decades and is still learning.  And that's with in-shop training & ever-present mentors in his journeyman days at Matt Umanov Guitars in NYC. 

[G._Hoffman]

You can actually buy long radius sanding beams, but they are really expensive
Mostly for common radius out there like fender, etc
http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Fretting_supplies/Leveling/Fretboard_Radius-sanding_Blocks.html

Those aren't actually much good for leveling frets.  They are great for leveling the fingerboard, but due to the height of the fret they are the wrong radius for the fret itself.

That's what my guitar tech says; plus that he's been doing it for decades and is still learning.  And that's with in-shop training & ever-present mentors in his journeyman days at Matt Umanov Guitars in NYC. 

The importance of a good mentor can not be overstated.  This really is one where knowledge can not take the place of experience.


Gabriel

[Madison]

Doug is so right about the difference.

I had a professional do my Strat once.
It was $125 and they had to ship it off.
I didn't want to go that route again.

My LP copy needed it badly when I purchased it used.
I'm cheap.
I bought a 12" sanding block.
Since the fret board was 12" radius I suspect it was a bit easier than say a 7.25".
I took my time with it and moved slowly.That guitar is one of my favorite players now.Just great.
I also did what G.H. said with just eying the level of the fretboard before sanding because uh.......... this is a picture of my neck jig

[EL34]

I forgot to mention that I also sanded the edges of the fretboard between each fret with some fine paper
This softens the edges of the fretboard and makes the guitar feel like it has been played for a long time.

[G._Hoffman]

Doug is so right about the difference.

I had a professional do my Strat once.
It was $125 and they had to ship it off.
I didn't want to go that route again.

My LP copy needed it badly when I purchased it used.
I'm cheap.
I bought a 12" sanding block.
Since the fret board was 12" radius I suspect it was a bit easier than say a 7.25".
I took my time with it and moved slowly.That guitar is one of my favorite players now.Just great.
I also did what G.H. said with just eying the level of the fretboard before sanding because uh.......... this is a picture of my neck jig

I'm pretty sure I said to check that it was straight with a good straight edge.


Gabriel

[Madison]

Sorry for the misquote. I meant to say,  I checked it with my straight edge before fret work.
I eyed the relief upon set up on that guitar.
No mentors out here in the sticks.
Thanks.