Hoffman Amplifiers Tube Amplifier Forum
Amp Stuff => Tube Amp Building - Tweaks - Repairs => Topic started by: EL34 on September 22, 2014, 01:00:38 pm
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I am thinking about stocking Mercury Magnetics transformers.
Do you buy them, do you like them?
What amp models would be the best to start stocking?
Here's the web site
http://www.mercurymagnetics.com/pages/mainframe.htm (http://www.mercurymagnetics.com/pages/mainframe.htm)
They are a bit pricey
Do you like other brands better?
Which brands?
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Mercury Magnetics are known as to be very good transformers
as you say a bit pricey
My standard reference are Hammond transformers
a little brand that is well appreciated here is InMADout
http://www.inmadout.com/ (http://www.inmadout.com/)
Franco
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Offhand and without any idea of how many xformers you sell in a year, I would think this to be problematical....just because there are so many variations: Whatever you got, the buyer wants something else. If you could earn better pricing by reselling suff qtys over the course of a year, great. If you manufactured and resold a "Hoffman XYZ" amp using a particular MM model (or two) and could achieve volume discounts that way, great. If not, I think you would find your potential profits locked up in excess inventory. That's just my quick take.
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I get the 25+ dealer discount at MM and they allow me to sell up to 20% off list price
I don't have to buy 25 trannys at a time to get the 25+ discount so I don't have to tie up a bunch of money
List price is the price you see when you browse their web site
Plus I can get stuff via USPS flat rate boxes from them fast if someone wants any of their trannys
There are standard trannys I sell all the time like 2 x 6V6 Deluxe sized OT's and power trannys
2 x 6L6 OT's and power trannys, etc
That's what I mean by which models
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I would be more inclined to buy a ClassicTone transformer. I've never bought one, but have thought about trying one before? If you could carry those, I'd be likely to buy one from you the next time I build something. The Mercury Magnetics are very pricey.
Just my 2 cents. With respect, Tubenit
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Been reading some negatives about Classic tone stuff but you can't always believe what you read
Who else likes classic tone trannys?
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I have built four amps using classictone PT and OT. Never had any issues and I like the look of them.
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Good info guys, keep it up.
Need way more input like this
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Was on the classic tone site just now and saw these sound clips
I think the MM tranny sounded the best
I would have picked the MM tranny in blind test
http://www.classictone.net/PaperVsPlastic.html (http://www.classictone.net/PaperVsPlastic.html)
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Listening through the sound clips on the link, the MM definitely had better bass response. I think I liked it best overall, especially on the clean passage. The other three were remarkably close to my ears. On the first listen, I think I would have put the Heyboer second, but then I listened again and liked the Classictone better :dontknow: . To be honest I think any of these would make a fine amp. If price were no object, I would use MM.....but I'm poor so I would probably go with the Classictone. :icon_biggrin:
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Was on the classic tone site just now and saw these sound clips I think the MM tranny sounded the best
I would have picked the MM tranny in blind test
http://www.classictone.net/PaperVsPlastic.html (http://www.classictone.net/PaperVsPlastic.html)
I've listened numerous times to that comparison over the last months or so. IF I were grading the tone on a scale of 1-10, I would give the MM only one point more, but I do agree it is probably the better sounding. IF we add in the cost factor and go "bang for the bucks", I would give the CT trannies 1st place.
FWIW, I have read mixed reviews of builders commenting on whether they are glad they bought MM trannies. I've read more positive then negative review, but some I've read have expressed thinking they were not worth the expense after having played the builds for a while.
I don't have strong feelings about this or a conclusion, just more my thoughts at this juncture without trying any of those trannies. If you carried MM trannies, I would anticipate eventually buying some from you and trying them out.
Also an uneducated opinion of mine is that I don't think the PT makes much difference in tone. I absolutely have experienced that the OT can make a really significant difference.
With respect, Tubenit
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I have never been unhappy with a Heybour or Mercury. I just replaced a Classictone OT in a Deluxe Reverb with a Discount one you sold me and the owner loves it.
It is just mainly preference. I like their stuff, but I have never sprang for a PT since I do not think any benefit.
The big point is I get to put that little plaque on the chassis and that is where all the :l2: Mojo is.
Here is the big deal. Mercury has done a great job advertising and I have guys ask for them and are willing to pay for them. A lot of hobbyist will simply disassemble one amp when tired of it and build another circuit.
They are the only folks where I have received bad OT's, and they did not hesitate to replace them. That says a lot. I love playing with different OT's and to me they make a difference. Maybe not much by themselves, but everything adds up. That is why some amps are really cool and others are run of the mill.
Besides, how much profit can there be in a Classictone 5E3 tranny for $35 bucks?
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One never hears such "shootout" comparisons on a tone that happens to be more my preference, more of a Pat Metheny cleaner tone. It's always a crunchy "Tweed/Marshally" tone you hear in these. For sure I understand that the "Tweed" tone is more popular and achieving it is likely a more powerful motivation for demanding a tube amp in the first place. That type of tone, I also understand, has a much stronger "archive" of artists who have played using that kind of tone..."lore" if you will. Finally, one thing I will positively assert about that kind of tone is that "holes" in the tonal range are usually quite apparent---though I would say that those would result more from circuit strengths/defects than OT. Just pointing it out with no agenda either way. Part of what makes a Princeton sound like a [genuine] Princeton (talking Tweed or 6G2) would be a decidedly undersized OT that IMO no designer would select *except* out of economy. A beefy "Deluxe" "22-watt" OT, not to mention a 30-watt Tremolux/Bassman transformer would probably sound much better in an erstwhile Princeton circuit, to my ears.
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What amp models would be the best to start stocking
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IF you were only going to carry one PT, I would want one that is 300-0-300 with 150ma. Both 5v and 6.3 of course.
(I could probably get by with 275-0-275 with 150ma?)
Then with the 300-0-300 (for example), I can get:
- 330v with 5Y3GT
- 360v with 5V4
- 390v with GZ34
- 420v with solid state
I can build anything that I personally would want with that one PT because I'm not going to go over 30-40w max. Just trying to offer some feedback on the "models question"
With respect, Tubenit
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One never hears such "shootout" comparisons on a tone that happens to be more my preference
That tone is not personal favorite either, I was just listening to the over audio content
Anywho, It sounds to me so far that not many people are willing to shell out the extra bucks for a MM OT
By the way, I am not so much interested in MM power trannies, just OT's
Keep the comments coming so I can get way more feedback
Steve,I don't know if MM does drop ship, I would have to ask
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i like classictone, hammond & heyboer, the NSC stuff you sell is OK too. don't like MM even at 20% off list: that's not a value. not at all. $120.00 list for a fender DR OT that hammond, heyboer, CT all sell for around 45.00?
a pretty paint job and a "name" isn't worth $55 differential. other's have a different opinion i'm sure.
--pete
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One never hears such "shootout" comparisons on a tone that happens to be more my preference, more of a Pat Metheny cleaner tone. It's always a crunchy "Tweed/Marshally" tone you hear in these. For sure I understand that the "Tweed" tone is more popular and achieving it is likely a more powerful motivation for demanding a tube amp in the first place. That type of tone, I also understand, has a much stronger "archive" of artists who have played using that kind of tone..."lore" if you will. Finally, one thing I will positively assert about that kind of tone is that "holes" in the tonal range are usually quite apparent---though I would say that those would result more from circuit strengths/defects than OT. Just pointing it out with no agenda either way. Part of what makes a Princeton sound like a [genuine] Princeton (talking Tweed or 6G2) would be a decidedly undersized OT that IMO no designer would select *except* out of economy. A beefy "Deluxe" "22-watt" OT, not to mention a 30-watt Tremolux/Bassman transformer would probably sound much better in an erstwhile Princeton circuit, to my ears.
spot on!
--pete
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i like classictone, hammond & heyboer, the NSC stuff you sell is OK too. don't like MM even at 20% off list: that's not a value. not at all. $120.00 list for a fender DR OT that hammond, heyboer, CT all sell for around 45.00?
a pretty paint job and a "name" isn't worth $55 differential. other's have a different opinion i'm sure.
--pete
good to know Pete
I have never had an issue with the NSC transformers I sell
The problem is that I think they will be phasing them out one at a time.
Maybe not all, but the ones that are slower sellers
They discontinued the 022798 super reverb power tranny and the 022848 pro rever OT and a couple others because they have to have a certain quantity made and the sales do not justify replacing them again
I think all these other tranny companies have put a big dent into New Sensors tranny sales because they don't have magical internet mojo
How many of these companies like MM, Classic Tone, etc were around 10 years ago?
So much of internet blurb is hype and whatever people want to believe
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There is no way I would buy a MM transformer when there are great sounding options that are sooo much cheaper.
I've used Hammond, Heyboer, Classic Tone and Edcor. They have all sounded fantastic. My preference is Edcor but those are made-to-order and you have to wait about six weeks. It certainly helps that Edcor looks better than all the others and is cheaper than all the others, but they also sound fantastic... and they have been around for a LONG time.
Now, if you could somehow manage to be the only person who sells Edcor iron "off-the-shelf" I think you would make a tidy profit indeed.
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Was on the classic tone site just now and saw these sound clips
I think the MM tranny sounded the best
I would have picked the MM tranny in blind test
http://www.classictone.net/PaperVsPlastic.html (http://www.classictone.net/PaperVsPlastic.html)
They're missing a couple soundfiles that they used to have on there by Hammond and Marstran. Being that this is coming from Classic Tone you can imagine what they post on their site about what's said about the others? Now if MM did this too, it would likely be reversed? Take it all with a grain of salt as they say and let your own ears decide what you like or not.
I will also say this in general - I very much like and prefer to always have options available to me. If I have the option of only an 8ohm tap vs 4, 8, & 16 ohm taps I will always buy the OT with multiple taps. Some PT's give a couple secondary B+ or input voltage options to manipulate the voltages if wanted which again can be an advantage too.
I have a MM Tweed 6v6 OT in an amp I use gigging and get compliments all the time to which my bandmate buddy plays his BFDR. That's some pretty tough competition and direct comparison right there. This was again just on Saturday night in fact coming from the bass player, drummer, and singer too. Then another from a buddy sitting at the bar across the room. My amp more than holds it's own against a legend (which I also doctored up - it's one hell of a tone machine).
I do have Classic Tones in two other SE amps but those are not set-up the same so direct comparison is impossible. I have several using iron from Hammond organ donors, and a couple "new"/"regular" Hammond OTs & even a Weber too. I will say I have an EL34 MM Axiom OT waiting for me to get off my butt & put it into use along with a fat stack 6V6 OT. Sorry I can't give more feedback on those yet.
*Doug - I could send you the other two files if you could use them or not?
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I didn't read any of the stuff on the MM page, I only played the sound files
I know better than to read that sort of edited stuff
Thanks, but the other missing sound files don't mean as much to me as the feedback here
I am only looking to add some new stuff to my store that you guys will buy
I am not stuck on adding MM trannys
keep the feedback coming
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I've used Classic Tone transformers twice: A PT for an old Gibson 5watt amp, and an OT for a Hot Rod Deluxe. Both seemed well built and the OT sounded good to me. My customer was really happy, too.
Personally, the hype around the MM iron is a little too much for me.
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I've used Classic Tone transformers twice: A PT for an old Gibson 5watt amp, and an OT for a Hot Rod Deluxe. Both seemed well built and the OT sounded good to me. My customer was really happy, too.
Personally, the hype around the MM iron is a little too much for me.
I am beginning to get the same idea from all the replies here so far
keep it coming
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*Doug - I could send you the other two files if you could use them or not?
I'll take those files! I haven't used a ot of same-model different-brand transformers, and would like to hear the differences myself.
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Was on the classic tone site just now and saw these sound clips
I think the MM tranny sounded the best
I would have picked the MM tranny in blind test
I agree; the MM sounded the best in that group of samples. Cost/Performance is always the debate with them.
If you're able to get short-turn orders from them or another vendor, why not offer the option of the cost-effective model & the expensive MM model? This way of working would depend entirely on you not having to actually stock multiple versions of the same OT on-hand.
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I'm not qualified in the sound department, but the guys that have played thru my builds, clones that they are familiar with, say; "wow, what did you do different?, I like it". I use edcor and Hammond, my preference is edcor, even with the 6week lead-time. One of the most liked tho was a modified 5E3 tweed using your standard small tweed OT, between the tube reg sag and the somewhat under sized OT it won out in the local store when they did a side by side with an original 5e1.
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One of the most liked tho was a modified 5E3 tweed using your standard small tweed OT, between the tube reg sag and the somewhat under sized OT it won out in the local store when they did a side by side with an original 5e1.
The NSC 041318 Deluxe OT?
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> a pretty paint job and a "name" isn't worth $55 differential.
(http://ontheoutsidecorner.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/scheib.jpg)
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I used the MM 100 watt Tweed OT that is a clone of the Triad transformer in my Steel String Singer clone. It is a little beefier than the twin reverb type transformers Magnetic Components sells. I also used a MM blackfaced twin reverb output transformer in my Dumble 124 build. Also used the MM chokes. Have never used the MM PT. Too much money for no gain as I see it.
I am very pleased with the tone of the amps I have MM OTs and chokes in but I am also very pleased with the amps I have Magnetic Components and Heyboer iron in as well.
If it were me stocking or at least selling MM OTs and chokes I would probably sell what you have boards for. For example the 5E3, 5f6a, Plexi, AC15 and AC30, AB763 twin reverb iron maybe. That way you are supporting the board side of your store.
Someone that is going to devote a significant amount of time in making their own amp is probably going to want to put the best quality components they can afford in the build. A 20% price reduction is a substantial amount of money when you are talking MM pricing.
Hope that is helpful.
Thanks
Mike
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I'm beginning tend towards Edcor. I've been using Hammond mostly, but the Edcor prices are right in line with most Hammonds, and they are a quality looking transformer. Plus, I like the really wide variety available. Drawback is the lead time to make. I forget what they say it is, but 4+ weeks is my experience. I'm usually never in a hurry when I order. I collect parts well ahead of the build.
Jack
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Thanks for the feedback guys
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If it worked out reasonably for Doug, I'd be interested in Edcor. When we were discussing the "Major" idea at 30w, we looked at Edcor. ClassicTone would be fine also, IMO. As a reminder, more you can buy stuff from Doug & not have to go elsewhere ........ the more one saves on shipping costs.
With respect, Tubenit
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I'll have to check out these other tranny companies and see what kind of dealer pricing they offer
If they don't have dealer pricing then I can't sell them here
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Buying parts for me and other persons repairs are 2 different things. Hammond transformers are not cheap. For instance, their 50 Marshall drake copy (Hammond # 784-139) sells at Metro for $150.00. The cost me $108 each, but are $68 if I get 10. I love this OT and any I put in others amps, they love them as well. They tend to hold up much better than stock.
Weber sells Mercury Magnetics and cannot drop ship for some reason, but I have had one dropped shipped to me. I do not know why, but I believe thy hold orders to get a certain quantity to get a larger discount.
If I am purchasing anything for a build that I know I will keep, like the AC15 a couple of us have built, I get what I want. If I were looking for a deal I could just buy a used one for $400, but that is not why I build amps. I purchased a Mercury Magnetics and with discounts it cost $128.00 whereas the list is $235.00. Still high, but the tranny Sluckey and Lego used is about $108.00. Sure we could have gotten a Classictone, but I tried on several occations to confirm if it were 6K as the spec sheet states. Not a single reply from Magnetic Components, and their 2 dealers did not know.
Email Patrick at Mercury Magnetics and see how long it takes to get your answer. Usually within 30 minutes.
So if all the transformers were setting in front of you and you could get whichever one you want, what would it be? The bitter taste of poor quality lingers longer than the sweet taste of low price is forgotten.
Also, they do have a great selection and I can wait 6 weeks for Edcor, but if it is a repair, well that is a different story. I really do not think anyone buys a paint job, but they do buy hype. Edcor gets attention from the pretty paint too, but they do have good prices.
But I can afford another $55 to get what I want for an amp I plan to keep, but I also use George L cables on my pedal board because there is a noticeable difference and play nice Gibsons, Fenders and Ibanez guitars. If money was my main concern I wouldn't build amps and I can get a good guitar for $400.
I wonder how many people state an opinion that have never used Mercury Magnetics?
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So that sounds like a thumbs up for MM
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Just another 2 cents...
When I start shopping I go right to Classic Tone's website, because I like the way it looks,,the way the xfmrs are organized and it gives me the low end benchmark for where the pricing should be.
CT's site gives you the option of buying from Triode USA or Amp Parts Direct (I use Triode)
I never buy anything else from Triode, so as Tubenit has mentioned, it feels like I am throwing away shipping money.
I always feel guilty when I buy from another supplier, and I would love to be able to get CT units from you at the same prices I get by being redirected to Triode.
It would be REALLY cool if you could work a deal with them where you would become a 3rd supplier and they would link to your site in the same way they do for the other 2.
Talk about more business :thumbsup:
Please feel free to edit accordingly if you don't like the supplier names in my post.
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So that sounds like a thumbs up for MM
Yes, MM is a thumbs up. Hype sells. There are a LOT of builders that only use MM. I can assure you hype has value. 2 amps you are looking purchase one on Ebay or Reverb.com. Both 5E3. One has Mercury Iron and one has Mercury Magnetics. You are buying without playing. If they were the same price, which one would sell first if the price were the same?
Now some will say it doesn't matter, but they are in the minority. I mean I put some Mercury Iron in a Epiphone Jr a while back. Complete waste of money IMO, but not in the owners opinion. Hype has value. I have also put a few in Egnater Amps as well.
Mercury Magnetics also does something that used to be commonplace in the US. They protect their distributors by putting a large list price and have structured tier pricing. This lets the distributor make a little profit on parts, but they want loyalty. If you are loyal to their brand they reward you with much better pricing. They are not Walmart. I have a great respect for this. Some other brands will sell just as or almost as cheap to individuals as they will to small repair shops.
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Buying parts for me and other persons repairs are 2 different things. Hammond transformers are not cheap. For instance, their 50 Marshall drake copy (Hammond # 784-139) sells at Metro for $150.00. The cost me $108 each, but are $68 if I get 10. I love this OT and any I put in others amps, they love them as well. They tend to hold up much better than stock.
Weber sells Mercury Magnetics and cannot drop ship for some reason, but I have had one dropped shipped to me. I do not know why, but I believe thy hold orders to get a certain quantity to get a larger discount.
If I am purchasing anything for a build that I know I will keep, like the AC15 a couple of us have built, I get what I want. If I were looking for a deal I could just buy a used one for $400, but that is not why I build amps. I purchased a Mercury Magnetics and with discounts it cost $128.00 whereas the list is $235.00. Still high, but the tranny Sluckey and Lego used is about $108.00. Sure we could have gotten a Classictone, but I tried on several occations to confirm if it were 6K as the spec sheet states. Not a single reply from Magnetic Components, and their 2 dealers did not know.
Email Patrick at Mercury Magnetics and see how long it takes to get your answer. Usually within 30 minutes.
So if all the transformers were setting in front of you and you could get whichever one you want, what would it be? The bitter taste of poor quality lingers longer than the sweet taste of low price is forgotten.
Also, they do have a great selection and I can wait 6 weeks for Edcor, but if it is a repair, well that is a different story. I really do not think anyone buys a paint job, but they do buy hype. Edcor gets attention from the pretty paint too, but they do have good prices.
But I can afford another $55 to get what I want for an amp I plan to keep, but I also use George L cables on my pedal board because there is a noticeable difference and play nice Gibsons, Fenders and Ibanez guitars. If money was my main concern I wouldn't build amps and I can get a good guitar for $400.
I wonder how many people state an opinion that have never used Mercury Magnetics?
Ed
Mark Sacketti at Magnetic Components is the person I trust most about transformers. I have talked to him many times and he has always given me good information. A few years ago Magnetic Components removed their phone number from their website (probably thought they would keep me from calling Mark as much then) however they made the mistake of not changing their phone number. PM me if you have a Magnetic Components question and I will give you Mark's phone number. He would want to reassure you about their products. Nice guy as is Patrick at MM and Arlyn at Heyboer.
Thanks
Mike
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*Doug - I could send you the other two files if you could use them or not?
I'll take those files! I haven't used a ot of same-model different-brand transformers, and would like to hear the differences myself.
Here's a pretty straightforward review on all SIX trannies from the original comparison and gives a very favorable MM detailed review. You can follow the links on top of the page to hear the other two sound files that were removed at some point.
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Magnetic Components is now Classic Tone?
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Magnetic Components is now Classic Tone?
It is a brand they began producing to further the idea of paper bobbins. This is what I read. They are adding transformers all the time. They are a great value for the individual and they are fine products. Tone Quest Mag likes them and they do a lot of reviews I consider spot on.
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Yep - it can a bit confusing huh? Magnetic Components = Classic Tone = Triode Electronics
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Was just on Classic tone web site
I would not say it is easy to get around on that site
geez, why can't you get a simple grid type layout and see all the models for fender on one page?
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Yep - it can a bit confusing huh? Magnetic Components = Classic Tone = Triode Electronics
So those are all the same company?
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Yep - it can a bit confusing huh? Magnetic Components = Classic Tone = Triode Electronics
So those are all the same company?
I believe Triode is not. Magnetic Components has a brand of tube transformers called Classictone. Lok here:
http://www.magneticcomponents.net/ (http://www.magneticcomponents.net/)
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ok, it's confusing but I think i see that CT is a branch of MC
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Ok, it does not look like there is enough meat left on the bone to sell Classic tone transformers
Example: princeton reverb OT 40-18045
http://www.classictone.net/40-18045.html (http://www.classictone.net/40-18045.html)
I would have to buy 18 pieces to get them for $25.61
Now add the shipping cost for me on 18 pieces and you can easily add $2 to 3 each for a heavy package like that
Anyone can go there and buy a princeton reverb OT for $34.44
Now take a bunch of different models and multiply that
I don't want to put $50k into a a new line of transformers and I don't have room to stock 18 pieces times 25 models of transformers
That deal does not compute
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Mark Sacketti at Magnetic Components is the person I trust most about transformers. I have talked to him many times and he has always given me good information.
Yes, Mark's the guy to talk to at CT.
Brad :icon_biggrin:
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ok, it's confusing but I think i see that CT is a branch of MC
I believe that's correct.
They are an old company from Chicago going back to the 40's? They moved to Schiller Park just west of the city.
They were the #1 company that Gibson ordered their iron from for many years. They also supplied most of the iron for Valco's many different amps which were ordered and sold under different names.
Brad :icon_biggrin:
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Ok, it does not look like there is enough meat left on the bone
Yeah, Meh I don't like skinny girls either. :l2:
Now add the shipping cost for me on 18 pieces and you can easily add $2 to 3 each for a heavy package like that.
I think if you buy in bulk they will drop ship them for you? I think that's how it works with Triode, that way CT doesn't have to do the office leg work.
Brad :think1:
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Not enough meat on the bone means that there is not enough markup
And buying in bulk means you have to buy in bulk, which I do not want to do
I can buy 4 transformers from MM and get the same price as if I buy 50
And I don't have to buy 18 of each model, I can buy as many as I want for the same price
And I get the highest discount because they know who I am and want my business
CT does not have proper retail pricing on their web site so retail merchants are not gonna be interested in this at all
In case anyone did not see this
This explains why CT is not gonna work
http://el34world.com/Forum/index.php?topic=17599.msg177244#msg177244 (http://el34world.com/Forum/index.php?topic=17599.msg177244#msg177244)
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Not enough meat on the bone means that there is not enough markup
Yes, I know, just being silly, sorry.
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And I don't have to buy 18 of each model, I can buy as many as I want for the same price
And I get the highest discount because they know who I am and want my business
Talk to Mark and see what he can do for you? All he can say at worst is no.
I've told him before about your forum and I think he has stopped by before and had a good look around.
Brad :dontknow:
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I'll drop them an email and see what they say
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I'll drop them an email and see what they say
Ask for Mark so you get it straight from the horses mouth, he's the guy you want there. (Look at CT's drawings and it's Mark's signature on them.)
Brad :icon_biggrin:
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Speaking of hype, Tone Quest Report mag over the years has given very high praise of amp builders amps they interviewed and also when they have replaced iron in old classic amps they bought for MM and CT.
Brad :think1:
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Was just on Classic tone web site
I would not say it is easy to get around on that site
geez, why can't you get a simple grid type layout and see all the models for fender on one page?
While the Classic tone web site is not easy to get around on there are specification sheets for every transformer on their site so you know what you are buying. The biggest complaint I have about MM is there is a lack of clarity as to their transformer specifications.
Thanks
Mike
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Show him this...I like the looks of it
Tell him he'll see 50% increase in web traffic :huh:
(1000% in the first week,,,,just like today)
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Ok, it does not look like there is enough meat left on the bone to sell Classic tone transformers
Example: princeton reverb OT 40-18045
http://www.classictone.net/40-18045.html (http://www.classictone.net/40-18045.html)
I would have to buy 18 pieces to get them for $25.61
Now add the shipping cost for me on 18 pieces and you can easily add $2 to 3 each for a heavy package like that
Anyone can go there and buy a princeton reverb OT for $34.44
Now take a bunch of different models and multiply that
I don't want to put $50k into a a new line of transformers and I don't have room to stock 18 pieces times 25 models of transformers
That deal does not compute
That is what I was saying. They sell their transformers as cheaply to anyone who wants to buy one. It could be a loss leader, but why would you want to market their product and sell it for such little profit? Their Tier is not Distributor, Jobber and retail. They really don't care if someone brings me the part because I certainly will not cover the labor of installing one is someone cranks their Marshall and frys the darn thing.
No profit for you and no protection for the installer. Maybe I do spend more money than I have to, but it is difficult for me to support this practice. You want me to install a Classictone. If it goes bad I have to charge again and I certainly cannot supply them then I would be obligated to replace the part.
If I make some money on the part I can do the job again even if it is the owners fault and not lose my shirt or piss someone off. Sure, I can stand on the idea that no part supplied by the customer will be warrantied, but it is a problem waiting to happen. The main problem is I know most of the ownesr of the amps personally and consider them friends.
If it is for my amp it does not matter. I guess it boils down to your market. Do you mainly sell to DIY or repair shops?
Remember you get the full guarantee: if it breaks in half you get to keep both halves. :l2:
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I have to agree with Ed
This is a not a good business practice
I like wholesalers who sell for full retail to the public
That way I can buy wholesale and sell discounted retail and still make a decent profit
I have to pay the bills here just like everyone else
I sent CT an email, lets see what they say
Patrick at MM on the other hand bent over backwards to say this to me in an email
I emailed him thinking he did not know me from Adam
All I did was put links to my web sites to show him that I had a valid retail store on the web
Hi Doug,
Actually I know who you are and we would love to have you offering us!
We would get you set up at our dealer pricing which is our 25 Piece price tier and I will email you the Discount Pricing Chart
And there was a bunch more, but this is the gist of it
Now that is customer service
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Well this pretty much knocks CT out of the running
These guys are not in business to set up dealers to sell their products
Who's next on the list?
There's always Mojo and I am already a Mojo dealer
Hi Doug,
Thanks for your interest in our transformers. If you are looking at our stock ClassicTone line, we do have a 12 piece minimum order per item per order for dealers / OEM and supply our deepest discounts at 18 pieces per item. We do not mix and match quantities. Our pricing is based on quantity bought per item per order only.
Thanks again,
Joe Janisch
ClassicTone By Magnetic Components, Inc.
9520 Ainslie Street
Schiller Park, IL 60176
Tel# 847-671-0633
Fax# 847-671-9419
magneticcomponents@sbcglobal.net
www.magneticcomponents.net (http://www.magneticcomponents.net)
www.classictone.net (http://www.classictone.net)
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Ed,
I am looking for someone who has a full line of fender transformers
I don't see much on that site unless i missed it
As for the Edcor, 4 week waiting times will not work for me
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Do you know who Tube Depot buys from? They don't look like New Sensor. They have a good variety, but I have never used them. $60 retail for a Tweed Deluxe.
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I'm sure you've seen this, but I like the way this page is laid out:
http://www.hammondmfg.com/guitarLineOT.htm (http://www.hammondmfg.com/guitarLineOT.htm)
Any time I've purchased Hammond through Newark they are drop shipped direct from Hammond in N.Y.
The Hammond name has me tricked into believing I am buying quality....not sure why that is other than how long they've been around...and so far everything I've seen looks high quality, and the OTs sound good to me.
I wonder what/if anything they would offer you?
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Do you know who Tube Depot buys from? They don't look like New Sensor. They have a good variety, but I have never used them. $60 retail for a Tweed Deluxe.
yeah, those are not new sensor trannys
Some are CT, some look like Mojo to me also
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Do you know who Tube Depot buys from? They don't look like New Sensor. They have a good variety, but I have never used them. $60 retail for a Tweed Deluxe.
I bought a cheap Champ OT from them and it had MOJO printed on it
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I'm sure you've seen this, but I like the way this page is laid out:
http://www.hammondmfg.com/guitarLineOT.htm (http://www.hammondmfg.com/guitarLineOT.htm)
Any time I've purchased Hammond through Newark they are drop shipped direct from Hammond in N.Y.
The Hammond name has me tricked into believing I am buying quality....not sure why that is other than how long they've been around...and so far everything I've seen looks high quality, and the OTs sound good to me.
I wonder what/if anything they would offer you?
I doubt they would talk to me
Look at the 4 distributors listed
Mouser, newark, Digi key and Allied
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Do you know who Tube Depot buys from? They don't look like New Sensor. They have a good variety, but I have never used them. $60 retail for a Tweed Deluxe.
I bought a cheap Champ OT from them and it had MOJO printed on it
That's what I thought
I am a mojo dealer and I get the biggest discount they have because Andy and I go way back
and we work together to create stuff like the relay boards, etc
I may just end up with Mojo and offer MM as special orders at a discount
I already stock a few Mojo trannys
I like the idea of being a MM dealer and having high end stuff for those that like to pay more than needed just to get a high end brand name
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With MM, I've bought a few sets of iron from them and on some of the PT's they bring out the actual solid core wire wind and slide old style 'spaghetti' insulation over it instead of terminating the solid core wire wind and soldering on a stranded wire fly lead.
I don't trust the solid core fly lead, to easy to stress break routing it in the chassis and it is difficult to make nice twisted pairs with them.
Brad :w2:
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I like the idea of being a MM dealer and having high end stuff for those that like to pay more than needed just to get a high end brand name
Yeah,
I think there will always be guys who just want the best of the best....and will pay for it
And when I have been tempted to buy one I was looking for an east coast distributor.
How would you handle their TONE guarantee?....especially with the nut-job population that are looking for any reason to blame why their amp doesn't sound like it "should"?
-
Do you know who Tube Depot buys from? They don't look like New Sensor. They have a good variety, but I have never used them. $60 retail for a Tweed Deluxe.
I bought a cheap Champ OT from them and it had MOJO printed on it
That's what I thought
I am a mojo dealer and I get the biggest discount they have because Andy and I go way back
and we work together to create stuff like the relay boards, etc
I may just end up with Mojo and offer MM as special orders at a discount
I already stock a few Mojo trannys
I like the idea of being a MM dealer and having high end stuff for those that like to pay more than needed just to get a high end brand name
So with this quote maybe I should buy from Classic tone. Maybe the folks a MM pay a living wage. Sure Ace hardware costs more, but they still have bolt bins. Every company who pays a living wage has to charge more than those who do not.
Keep buying the cheapest and it will become the standard. We will eventually run out of options and have to use substandard components. Oh wait, it is already happening because you are getting squeezed by NSC not making some trannys.
Are you sure you cannot source some from China? :l2:
And I thought you conservative.
-
I like the idea of being a MM dealer and having high end stuff for those that like to pay more than needed just to get a high end brand name
Yeah,
I think there will always be guys who just want the best of the best....and will pay for it
And when I have been tempted to buy one I was looking for an east coast distributor.
How would you handle their TONE guarantee?....especially with the nut-job population that are looking for any reason to blame why their amp doesn't sound like it "should"?
You send it back. They refund the money. Really!!
I asked CJ at Weber how this works and they know the serial number where each is sold. You send it back and they credit Weber. Once this credit is done Weber refunds to you. Fairly simple, but it takes 10 days or so.
I did not know they still offered that, but if you charge 2x as much it is not really a guarantee is it. Sort of cool because you have nothing to lose tho.
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Maybe the folks a MM pay a living wage. Sure Ace hardware costs more, but they still have bolt bins. Every company who pays a living wage has to charge more than those who do not.
Keep buying the cheapest and it will become the standard. We will eventually run out of options and have to use substandard components. Oh wait, it is already happening because you are getting squeezed by NSC not making some trannys.
MM isn't helping with a ridiculously over-priced premium product.
What is the absolute best tone worth to someone?.....TWICE as much as 'almost' the absolute best tone??
Magical laminations and solid gold windings....ok then
The 'same' materials used in a slightly different way, sprinkled with a ton of hype = 1.5X what I'd pay for a Hammond (MAX)
2X (3X in some cases :huh:) is just exploiting my lack of intelligence. :angry:
I refuse to have the absolute best tone for that reason. :icon_biggrin:
-
Maybe the folks a MM pay a living wage. Sure Ace hardware costs more, but they still have bolt bins. Every company who pays a living wage has to charge more than those who do not.
Keep buying the cheapest and it will become the standard. We will eventually run out of options and have to use substandard components. Oh wait, it is already happening because you are getting squeezed by NSC not making some trannys.
MM isn't helping with a ridiculously over-priced premium product.
What is the absolute best tone worth to someone?.....TWICE as much as 'almost' the absolute best tone??
Magical laminations and solid gold windings....ok then
The 'same' materials used in a slightly different way, sprinkled with a ton of hype = 1.5X what I'd pay for a Hammond (MAX)
2X (3X in some cases :huh: ) is just exploiting my lack of intelligence. :angry:
I refuse to have the absolute best tone for that reason. :icon_biggrin:
Coca-Cola is basically sugar water.
MM makes a great product. You know the price and willingly pay it.
No need to badmouth a US company. They have a different business model and it seems to be working better than most.
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Maybe the folks a MM pay a living wage. Sure Ace hardware costs more, but they still have bolt bins. Every company who pays a living wage has to charge more than those who do not.
Keep buying the cheapest and it will become the standard. We will eventually run out of options and have to use substandard components. Oh wait, it is already happening because you are getting squeezed by NSC not making some trannys.
MM isn't helping with a ridiculously over-priced premium product.
What is the absolute best tone worth to someone?.....TWICE as much as 'almost' the absolute best tone??
Magical laminations and solid gold windings....ok then
The 'same' materials used in a slightly different way, sprinkled with a ton of hype = 1.5X what I'd pay for a Hammond (MAX)
2X (3X in some cases :huh: ) is just exploiting my lack of intelligence. :angry:
I refuse to have the absolute best tone for that reason. :icon_biggrin:
Coca-Cola is basically sugar water.
MM makes a great product. You know the price and willingly pay it.
No need to badmouth a US company. They have a different business model and it seems to be working better than most.
I don't even like the "tone" of this message!? :l2: :l2: :l2:
With all this "hype" talk I think someone mentioned global warming & solar energy being the solution didn't they???
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Maybe the folks a MM pay a living wage. Sure Ace hardware costs more, but they still have bolt bins. Every company who pays a living wage has to charge more than those who do not.
Keep buying the cheapest and it will become the standard. We will eventually run out of options and have to use substandard components. Oh wait, it is already happening because you are getting squeezed by NSC not making some trannys.
MM isn't helping with a ridiculously over-priced premium product.
What is the absolute best tone worth to someone?.....TWICE as much as 'almost' the absolute best tone??
Magical laminations and solid gold windings....ok then
The 'same' materials used in a slightly different way, sprinkled with a ton of hype = 1.5X what I'd pay for a Hammond (MAX)
2X (3X in some cases :huh: ) is just exploiting my lack of intelligence. :angry:
I refuse to have the absolute best tone for that reason. :icon_biggrin:
Coca-Cola is basically sugar water.
MM makes a great product. You know the price and willingly pay it.
No need to badmouth a US company. They have a different business model and it seems to be working better than most.
I don't even like the "tone" of this message!? :l2: :l2: :l2:
With all this "hype" talk I think someone mentioned global warming & solar energy being the solution didn't they???
I do not know nuthin about birthin no babies.
I am not sure about much, but I can assure you that you can try a MM OT for the cost of freight. I cannot believe they still do that. I just wonder how that is taking advantage of anyone. I mean it is not like they are the IRS.
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I think MM builds an excellent transformer. And they found a niche market by building exact copies of old transformers (well, at least exact electrical properties). I have a full set of MM iron in my TDR. That's 4 pieces. I bought mine through a guy that passed on his quantity discount to me.
But, as good as they are, no way would I pay that price for another one of their transformers! There's plenty of other good choices out there.
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Just a personal perspective here but as long as you properly size your PT and/or choke iron, I just don't see any advantage of one from another to be gained no matter which supplier or make is used. BUT I do think the most important piece of iron in your amp is the OT by far (with all other stuff being equal).
I don't usually have the three pieces having the same name on them for this reason. I go with best value on PT & choke (which have ample capacity), then choose whatever I feel is best for the OT. This can definitely be because of what's on hand or any other host of reasons. But if you find any MM iron in any of my amps, it will be found at the OT positions. That is unless I found some smoking deal off Craig's list or ebay first?
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MM makes a great product. You know the price and willingly pay it.
No need to badmouth a US company. They have a different business model and it seems to be working better than most.
Not me.
I'm not bad mouthing an American company, just the knuckleheads that will pay those prices. :l2:
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MM makes a great product. You know the price and willingly pay it.
No need to badmouth a US company. They have a different business model and it seems to be working better than most.
Not me.
I'm not bad mouthing an American company, just the knuckleheads that will pay those prices. :l2:
Couldn't resist this one.
If you have never owned one, but still have an opinion it has to be based on lack of experience and/or knowledge and must be based on price only.
I will bet you any amount you want that your family has a house larger than necessary and could save enough money by driving cheaper cars and not eating out to buy as many MM trannys you want.
What are you saying. Knuckleheads spend money they do not have to? :l2:
Now what were you saying?
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Just a personal perspective here but as long as you properly size your PT and/or choke iron, I just don't see any advantage of one from another to be gained no matter which supplier or make is used. BUT I do think the most important piece of iron in your amp is the OT by far (with all other stuff being equal).
I don't usually have the three pieces having the same name on them for this reason. I go with best value on PT & choke (which have ample capacity), then choose whatever I feel is best for the OT. This can definitely be because of what's on hand or any other host of reasons. But if you find any MM iron in any of my amps, it will be found at the OT positions. That is unless I found some smoking deal off Craig's list or ebay first?
Part of my hostility comes from the idea that gets pushed that a PT is gonna make a tone difference... :rolleyes:
It's like saying a car wax is gonna give you a performance increase :think1:
Once anyone stands behind that claim,,,I lose my ability to pay attention.
I understand why they do it....I refuse to agree.
Most guitar players are dumb....if you say it, they'll buy it....there's a certain responsibility there for people who know better.
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I wonder how many people state an opinion that have never used Mercury Magnetics?
:hello:
Yes, I refuse to have the absolute best tone....
I can't hear it over the drummer anyway :icon_biggrin:
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I wonder how many people state an opinion that have never used Mercury Magnetics?
:hello:
Yes, I refuse to have the absolute best tone....
I can't hear it over the drummer anyway :icon_biggrin:
Yes, but you avoided my question.
See, it is really not about money, it is about resentment. Now I know. So why call me a knucklehead if I buy a MM and you have leather seats?
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See, it is really not about money, it is about resentment. Now I know. So why call me a knucklehead if I buy a MM and you have leather seats?
Let's see how fast I can pedal backwards............................................
I wasn't calling YOU specifically a knucklehead,,,,,it was more aimed at the vast majority of pluckers who hear an improvement in tone when they wear a MM t-shirt
I respect you too much to call you names.....If anything it would probably be MR. Chambley :icon_biggrin:
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See, it is really not about money, it is about resentment. Now I know. So why call me a knucklehead if I buy a MM and you have leather seats?
Let's see how fast I can pedal backwards............................................
I wasn't calling YOU specifically a knucklehead,,,,,it was more aimed at the vast majority of pluckers who hear an improvement in tone when they wear a MM t-shirt
I respect you too much to call you names.....If anything it would probably be MR. Chambley :icon_biggrin:
I am having fun. You better call me Ed. Mr, Chambley is my father.
I understand hype and I do know what you mean. There is a difference and I have only bought OT's. I can tell you this, it cost almost as much to put parallel caps in as to step up to a MM tranny.
Never forget what I can remember. :laugh:
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The hype that was circulating in 2002 when I bought my MM iron was something like this... "Give the OT about 100 hours to warm up and break in. Then it will sound much better."
I suspect that hype came from a low-tech person. :wink:
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I can tell you this, it cost almost as much to put parallel caps in as to step up to a MM tranny.
I knew,,,somehow,,,this would come back on me :icon_biggrin:
There is a difference and I have only bought OT's.
I guess I'm gonna have to TRY ONE before I picket on the street in front of their building.
I'll make a deal....
If Doug carries them, I'll buy ONE
The hype that was circulating in 2002 when I bought my MM iron was something like this... "Give the OT about 100 hours to warm up and break in. Then it will sound much better."
I suspect that hype came from a low-tech person. :wink:
.....knucklehead :grin:
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I was being kind. I know how sensitive Ed is.
-
copy
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I was being kind. I know how sensitive Ed is.
True, but at least I know heater phasing is bullshit.
Don't start with me Sluckey. I will get Icehouse barred from Alabama.
BTW, how in the hell would you know what tranny is best. You don't even know how long it takes an elephant to stomp a bucket of water till it evaporates.
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I like the idea of being a MM dealer and having high end stuff for those that like to pay more than needed just to get a high end brand name
Yeah,
I think there will always be guys who just want the best of the best....and will pay for it
And when I have been tempted to buy one I was looking for an east coast distributor.
How would you handle their TONE guarantee?....especially with the nut-job population that are looking for any reason to blame why their amp doesn't sound like it "should"?
I was not aware of that
I had better ask patrick cause I don't want to have anything to do with that and the goofballs that might involve
Thanks for the heads up
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Show him this...I like the looks of it
Tell him he'll see 50% increase in web traffic :huh:
(1000% in the first week,,,,just like today)
I don't know what you are saying here???
I am missing something
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I sent a reply back to CT about their pricing policy
From: Doug Hoffman <hoffmanamps@comporium.net>
To: Magnetic Components <magneticcomponents@sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2014 12:03 PM
Subject: Re: dealer inquiry
Thanks for your reply
That's not gonna work for me
You guys sell too low to the general public
There's no meat left on the bone for dealers
Thanks,
Doug Hoffman
Hi Doug,
I understand.
Thanks for the inquiry,
Joe Janisch
ClassicTone By Magnetic Components, Inc.
9520 Ainslie Street
Schiller Park, IL 60176
Tel# 847-671-0633
Fax# 847-671-9419
magneticcomponents@sbcglobal.net
www.magneticcomponents.net (http://www.magneticcomponents.net)
www.classictone.net (http://www.classictone.net)
Sounds like they could give a Shit
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Show him this...I like the looks of it
Tell him he'll see 50% increase in web traffic :huh:
(1000% in the first week,,,,just like today)
I don't know what you are saying here???
I am missing something
SG changed their radio button to yours to link to your site - figuratively to give you a visual!
-
I was being kind. I know how sensitive Ed is.
True, but at least I know heater phasing is bullshit.
What??? I benefitted from this big time in the past!
-
There is a big difference in the quality of the laminates on many transformers
All laminates are not the same
Really cheap tranny's use really cheap materials
Who knows how much better MM laminates are than the other guys
Maybe the folks a MM pay a living wage. Sure Ace hardware costs more, but they still have bolt bins. Every company who pays a living wage has to charge more than those who do not.
Keep buying the cheapest and it will become the standard. We will eventually run out of options and have to use substandard components. Oh wait, it is already happening because you are getting squeezed by NSC not making some trannys.
MM isn't helping with a ridiculously over-priced premium product.
What is the absolute best tone worth to someone?.....TWICE as much as 'almost' the absolute best tone??
Magical laminations and solid gold windings....ok then
The 'same' materials used in a slightly different way, sprinkled with a ton of hype = 1.5X what I'd pay for a Hammond (MAX)
2X (3X in some cases :huh: ) is just exploiting my lack of intelligence. :angry:
I refuse to have the absolute best tone for that reason. :icon_biggrin:
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Thanks, I missed that
I doubt I can get my own store buttons there or else there would be a whole lot more than two right now if it was that easy
Especially now that I called them out on their dealer pricing policy
Show him this...I like the looks of it
Tell him he'll see 50% increase in web traffic :huh:
(1000% in the first week,,,,just like today)
I don't know what you are saying here???
I am missing something
SG changed their radio button to yours to link to your site - figuratively to give you a visual!
-
I was being kind. I know how sensitive Ed is.
True, but at least I know heater phasing is bullshit.
What??? I benefitted from this big time in the past!
Just messing around. I don't want to mess with anyone's faith. :laugh:
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'South Park': Cartman, "Faith provides hope. Hope provides change. Doing the same thing over & over again expecting change is insanity. Therefore, kids Faith = Insanity!"
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Now, now Ed. I was truly being sensitive toward you. Please don't mess with my IceHouse distributer. I fear they would be out of business except for me. My favorite Icehouse teeshirt... "I've only had one in dog beers!"
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Doug,
Are you sure CT sells directly to the public? All I see on their site is the ability to order from their two dealers: Amp Parts Direct and Triode. To order directly from them, you have to buy at least 12 of them. Am I missing something?
Of course, if you can't make buying 18 of each feasible it still won't work though.
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Are you sure CT sells directly to the public?
Well, those prices from those two sources are direct to the public at less than retail prices
So you guys make out just fine, but I would not touch them at the prices they offer distributors
Like I said above, there is just not enough meat on the bone to make carrying them worth it
I would have to drop 50k on a bunch of them and get very little return on that investment
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I'm sure you've seen this, but I like the way this page is laid out:
http://www.hammondmfg.com/guitarLineOT.htm (http://www.hammondmfg.com/guitarLineOT.htm)
Any time I've purchased Hammond through Newark they are drop shipped direct from Hammond in N.Y.
The Hammond name has me tricked into believing I am buying quality....not sure why that is other than how long they've been around...and so far everything I've seen looks high quality, and the OTs sound good to me.
I wonder what/if anything they would offer you?
I doubt they would talk to me
Look at the 4 distributors listed
Mouser, newark, Digi key and Allied
But Angela seems to some kind of arrangement with Hammond - http://angela.com/transformers.aspx (http://angela.com/transformers.aspx)
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ok, if CT is willing to make you deal like triode & amp-parts direct, even if the bones are skinny, you'll get other biz. think seven-eleven: sell the cheap milk with other goodies that have a higher point spread. something is better than nothing. heyboer: same deal.
bottom line doug, if i had a choice of buying CT and heyboer parts from faceless triode or amp-parts, for about the same money from you, then you'd be my go-to for off the shelf iron.
lastly, consider filling your line-up with hammond as well. you're already established, so opening a line of credit with them shouldn't be too difficult. given the variance in hammond pricing from VAR to VAR, you'll do OK, and not everyone can buy from CE dist plus it'll let you fill in the gaps for the NSC stock.
just thinking out loud.
--pete
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The biggest complaint I have about MM is there is a lack of clarity as to their transformer specifications.
Case in point: They make an absurd number of Tweed Deluxe OT and PT variants, and just throw them all up on their site with minimal explanation and no recommendations. It's like knowing you need off-white paint and going to Home Depot and looking at one of those brochures that lists three pages of off-white paint, but with the paint chips removed from the brochure and you're just supposed to guess whether you need Ostrich Egg White or Aged Ivory Letter-Opener White or Sweetened Condensed Milk Left Too Long in the Refrigerator White.
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They are excellent trannies. If you can't hear it, you can't.
Ed Chambley has it right on.
I'll grant you some of their advertising is, uh, styled like the bottled meds they sold from stagecoaches back in the "good ol' days" of the U.S. when killin' "injuns" was considered civic duty.
So. Got humor?
Missed you guys and thanks for all you've taught me and (I'm sure) will continue. Big props to Doug! Got sick About a year and a half ago and it has really put a number on me. My docs say things look good and I can expect a long (er) :l2: life.
Blessings.
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I love the mojotone - heyboer and mercury transformers.
I have had very bad luck with with classic tone power transformers . with two being dead on arrival ( well both drew about 45VA at idle with no secondaries connected... . plus I purchased them a year apart) . because for me its all overseas shipping so I need to depend on and trust what I am getting is going to work.
For the every day 'spend' I'd go with mojo day in day out. If I want something that bit more special I'll spring out for mercury on the OT only and yes thats partly because of the hype /reputation. So for my AC30 i got the woden spec jmi copy for the output and boy that was expensive.
For what its worth (probably not much) when you hold and look at a mojo/heyboer/mercury transformer you get the feeling your holding something well made, I never got that with my classic tone transformers they just seemed kinda skimpy. Does that make sense?!
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Everything I've seen so far about MM is that they are double (sometimes triple) the cost of various manufactures. I do like to stick with a higher end brand. I buy Hammond for everything. I feel like most of the people here recognize MM to be just a big name as opposed to being actually worth the big bucks. But it's like Sluckey said, it depends on how much mojo you want.
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I think it would be useful to Doug in making this business decision IF we could give him a better sense of how often we might buy a Mercury Magnetics output transformer?
So, IF you were building 10 amps .............. how often would you anticipate (best guess) that you would use MM OT trannies?
None
1-3 times
4-6 times
7-10 times
I would anticipate maybe 1-3 times range for myself given I am strictly a hobbyist.
I've never tried one, but if Doug carries them, I would anticipate buying one to see what it sounded like? IF it sounded great and truly exceptional, I might recommend considering upgrade if I were building an amp for a friend.
With respect, Tubenit
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To date I have built 12 amps and have not used a MM in any of them. I can't see that I would use one in the future. Too much difference in the cost for me.
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Thanks for the replies guys
Lets try this
Pick out a MM OT that you think you would like to use and I will shoot you a price
Then see if you are still interested
It seems as though price is the main argument against MM?
I am able to discount up to 20% off list so that may make a difference
here's the web site
http://www.mercurymagnetics.com/pages/mainframe.htm (http://www.mercurymagnetics.com/pages/mainframe.htm)
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I just went back re-read the email I got from patrick at MM
It said "The maximum advertised discount price is no more than 20% off the retail price"
That's advertised price
I don't advertise :icon_biggrin:
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BF Deluxe Reverb Multitap OT. From what you said about their pricing this should be about $95.00. Weber sells it for $102.
My usage personally is I have 3. Two I have purchased new one I got when I bought an amp that needed building correctly.
But, I have installed in the last year 7 in Egnater amps (popular) all OT's, 1 in a Epiphone Jr. 3 complete sets in re-issue Deluxe Reverbs, 2 I put a handwired board in. One 67 Super Reverb.
Everyone was purchased by the owner of the amps. I did not recommend any. They also bought NOTHING else, just the iron. That is 12 in the last year and I do this as a hobby, but I still charge for it.
How many people have asked for a specific brand not MM. One, he wanted the Dagnell Copy Tranny Metro sells and did not know Heybour made it.
I would prefer something cheaper myself as I bought a box of scratch and dent NCS from Doug. From a business prospective a loss leader for a small business where customer service is a great selling feature, loss leaders generally do not recoup. Doug's policy was once you bought Transformer it was yours. Bad news travels much faster than good news. I have heard a few times of people complaining of getting bad CT transformers and yes it could be the person installed it wrong or simply focused on the part because it was cheap.
My point is for the first time I know of people are purchasing MM iron and getting it installed.
My profit margin here at my company has to be at least 31%. Anything less and I do not make money. If an offer of less profit is made I lose money. I would prefer to use that time looking for customers who will pay what I need to operate and make a profit and let the cheap price hunter keep hunting.
Problem with price hounds is there is always someone willing to cut their price under yours using the same idea. If I cannot make money on what I am selling, I have to change what I am selling, not cut my price in hopes I can sell $20 worth of caps.
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So, IF you were building 10 amps .............. how often would you anticipate (best guess) that you would use MM OT trannies?
none
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Now, now Ed. I was truly being sensitive toward you. Please don't mess with my IceHouse distributer. I fear they would be out of business except for me. My favorite Icehouse teeshirt... "I've only had one in dog beers!"
Yea, you are a sensitive touchy feely type. :l2:
Why on Gods green earth would I care what tranny people prefer. I was just offering my experience in business. My company has been in business since 73 and successful. I know trying to be the cheapest on the block does not work. I see it all the time. A new shop opens selling cheaply, too cheap thinking they will get their "foot in the door".
All that happens is when they try to increase their price to a profitable area, their customer they got by offering cheaper prices finds someone who will sell it yet cheaper. It is a waste of time I could use fishing. :icon_biggrin:
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Ok, so I am thinking a Fender Deluxe sized OT would be one of the first I would carry.
Then I go to MM's web site and click on Deluxe
There's 28 versions there and I have no idea which one people would want?
I can see that the MM web site is very confusing in that regard
Ed, All those Deluxe OT's you used, what part number were they?
Or were they all different part numbers?
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Ok, so I am thinking a Fender Deluxe sized OT would be one of the first I would carry.
Then I go to MM's web site and click on Deluxe
There's 28 versions there and I have no idea which one people would want?
I can see that the MM web site is very confusing in that regard
Ed, All those Deluxe OT's you used, what part number were they?
Or were they all different part numbers?
Their part numbers are
F-Fender
BF-Black Face
D-Deluxe
R-Reverb
OM- Multitap
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I see a problem with that right away
The name says its for a Black face amp
You can't possibly use that on a Tweed Deluxe
The other problem is the multi tap 2-4-8
I can see someone not wanting that one and wanting the single 8 ohm tap
They have too many choices
I have an email into Patrick asking about drop shipping
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I have the FBFDR-O which is a single tap secondary. I had to re-drill the mounting holes to be able to use two bolts. Not a problem on a scratch build with a blank chassis, but could be a challenge if replacing an OT in an existing amp.
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I have the FBFDR-O which is a single tap secondary. I had to re-drill the mounting holes to be able to use two bolts. Not a problem on a scratch build with a blank chassis, but could be a challenge if replacing an OT in an existing amp.
This is true. I had to drill holes in the mounting plate closer together as the are larger. I did not have to drill the chassis. Darn near worked me to death. :l2:
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The other problem is the multi tap 2-4-8
I can see someone not wanting that one and wanting the single 8 ohm tap
They have too many choices
I have an email into Patrick asking about drop shipping
I would personally aways want the extra taps but that's just me. Regarding the many choices available, I think that's great! However, there really is a low amount of spec sheets available and wish this could be improved greatly! I want to SEE why there's so many choices and what drives this? I'd like to read if they're using different wire sizes or laminations, or if there's many different primary impedances, etc... not just different mounting or size to fit a certain chassis. BUT even that kind of info would be nice to have and see so that we all could make as best a buying decision as possible!? And wouldn't need to call in every time just to get some basic info out of them regarding all this stuff. If you email you don't always get the answers you're looking for. So, it's always a time consuming and sometimes frustrating deal just trying to get accurate and detailed information from them.
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I have to agree about the lack of information/descriptions for the MM trannys
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However, there really is a low amount of spec sheets available and wish this could be improved greatly! I want to SEE why there's so many choices and what drives this? I'd like to read if they're using different wire sizes or laminations, or if there's many different primary impedances, etc... not just different mounting or size to fit a certain chassis. BUT even that kind of info would be nice to have and see so that we all could make as best a buying decision as possible!? And wouldn't need to call in every time just to get some basic info out of them regarding all this stuff. If you email you don't always get the answers you're looking for. So, it's always a time consuming and sometimes frustrating deal just trying to get accurate and detailed information from them.
+1
The website is a little off-putting that way, and that's partially why I don't spend much time there.
Just give me pri K, sec. taps, and current handling, and that's something
I have to agree about the lack of information/descriptions for the MM trannys
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I have to agree about the lack of information/descriptions for the MM trannys
That might be part of the secret sauce hype. It's like Dumble, what's in there?
Brad :icon_biggrin:
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Just take my word for it. It's the right transformer for you.
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Just take my word for it. It's the right transformer for you.
Is that for me?
Brad :dontknow:
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That's for anyone that wants a MM transformer. You don't need any specs. Just trust me. We got it right. This is the transformer you need.
I'm just funnin'. Like I said earlier, MM makes an excellent transformer. But IMO they are too expensive. That's the only reason I'll never buy another.
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Their marketing tactic is different. You guy are not their market, nor am I. Sure, there are cases where I have the funds (2 times) and wanted to get the Mercury OT. That is not the point.
Thi9s is the first time I have ever seen a player impressed by what transformer is in a Boutique amp. It is almost expected and Mercury has successfully marketed to the non-technical player and convinced them they are best. Builders are using them to appeal to this market.
How many of you guys buy most of your transformers for Doug now? I'll bet not many. I have bought from Doug a Bassman PT, a OT for the same and some discounted OT's that he was blowing out. I get most of the iron I play with from old amps like from old organs and such. I know a few of you do the same.
Clearly the majority are not interested in buying Mercury and have valid complaints such as access to information to tech specs. They are selling Mojo and doing a great job of it. Simply consider the increased webtraffic by being a dealer. I found Hoffmans store searching for board material and turrets. Doug invited me to join the forum. I would bet there a ton of Knuckleheads and goofballs searching for Mercury right now and wanting to know how to install them.
They come here and catch the fever. Now that is much more profitable than promoting a loss leader.
Remember when you were new to this as a hobby? To a nooby tuber, what is more impressive. Selling Mercury Iron or NSC or Mojotone or whatever.
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That's for anyone that wants a MM transformer. You don't need any specs. Just trust me. We got it right. This is the transformer you need.
I'm just funnin'. Like I said earlier, MM makes an excellent transformer. But IMO they are too expensive. That's the only reason I'll never buy another.
Yea, and they are not making them for you. You know how an amp works.
Again, I do not know anyone who has MM iron that is unhappy with it, but I know a lot of Goofballs and Knuckleheads looking to understand their amps. Lets get them here as we are a dying breed.
See, you say you are not going to build amps anymore. With that said, how many of anyone's transformers are you going to buy anyway.
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It's been 8 years since I put the MM iron in my Tweed Deluxe Reverb. I'm still waiting to get through my 100 hour break in period so the OT will open up and sing that golden tone. I've got maybe 50 hours on it right now. Honestly, at this rate, I don't know if I have another 50 hours play time left! :icon_biggrin:
I may build just one more amp. Thinking about a tweed Princeton Reverb. If so, I'll probably use MM iron. Guess where the iron will come from? :wink:
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Ok.
I agree, a good/great product but high priced. Are they worth it? The only way something's worth anything is when someone is willing to buy and if you have a little mystery about it, and make it look good (or like PRR says sexy) it might sell better. (Personally I think the old movie stars were way more 'sexier' when they kept more cloths on.)
For some reason they seem to think they'll do better by not posting the specs for their iron, makes no sense to me. I think they should so anyone could use 1 for what they want/need to use it for, not just for what they say it's for, ie, BFDR.
With a PT, we all know we can look at the amp it's supposed to be for and guess what it's specs are but with so many multiples (on some) of a single amps PT the specs gotta be different on some of them.
With the OT's having the primary and wattage specs would certainly be helpful.
But I don't think they'll change their mind any time soon on posting the specs, as so far they seem to be doing very well?
Not sure they'll tell or let Doug post the specs either, unless it's a 'custom' build that they put Doug's name on that's really just 1 of their stock PT's/OT's relabeled?
Brad :dontknow:
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I have to agree about the lack of information/descriptions for the MM trannys
Doug,
How much more information do you provide on your transformers on your website than Mercury does on theirs?
You guys are funny.
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It's been 8 years since I put the MM iron in my Tweed Deluxe Reverb. I'm still waiting to get through my 100 hour break in period so the OT will open up and sing that golden tone. I've got maybe 50 hours on it right now. Honestly, at this rate, I don't know if I have another 50 hours play time left! :icon_biggrin:
I may build just one more amp. Thinking about a tweed Princeton Reverb. If so, I'll probably use MM iron. Guess where the iron will come from? :wink:
If Doug is not selling it I would guess Watts. :l2: :l2: :l2:
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If Doug is not selling it I would guess Watts. :l2: :l2: :l2:
:huh:
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How much more information do you provide on your transformers on your website than Mercury does on theirs?
Here's for the Fenders;
http://el34world.com/Transformers/fentrans.htm (http://el34world.com/Transformers/fentrans.htm)
Here's for the Marshall's;
http://el34world.com/Transformers/marshall.htm (http://el34world.com/Transformers/marshall.htm)
Brad :icon_biggrin:
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You're not paying attention Ed. I said I'll never buy another MM transformer.
Also, Watts only has one thing I'm interested in. If I ever find it on another site, he'll have nothing I'm interested in.
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How much more information do you provide on your transformers on your website than Mercury does on theirs?
Here's for the Fenders;
http://el34world.com/Transformers/fentrans.htm (http://el34world.com/Transformers/fentrans.htm)
Here's for the Marshall's;
http://el34world.com/Transformers/marshall.htm (http://el34world.com/Transformers/marshall.htm)
Brad :icon_biggrin:
Stand Corrected. Good to know.
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You're not paying attention Ed. I said I'll never buy another MM transformer.
Also, Watts only has one thing I'm interested in. If I ever find it on another site, he'll have nothing I'm interested in.
I was paying attention and know what you said.
We have different understanding. Your labor will purchase it and your labor has no value? I guess you are either going to have to dismiss me by being coy or simply ignore this. :argue:
What you goona do?
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I have to agree about the lack of information/descriptions for the MM trannys
The lack of typical/normal basic info that almost every trannie site has .............. AND the higher price, are two of the 3 reasons I have never purchased a MM trannie.
That leaves me feeling like I am paying "more" for some unknown factor in a trannie. I don't care for that approach at all.
I will presume if Doug carries them (that either thru Doug or the forum members), I will know enough about the design to see whether it's a good fit for me or not for a project.
With respect, Tubenit
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your labor has no value?
Correct. Well, no monetary value. My value is the enjoyment that comes from this hobby. Same value from participating in this forum and trying to help others when I can, or sometimes poking at some people when I can. :icon_biggrin:
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your labor has no value?
Correct. Well, no monetary value. My value is the enjoyment that comes from this hobby. Same value from participating in this forum and trying to help others when I can, or sometimes poking at some people when I can. :icon_biggrin:
Well if it has no value don't you feel like a bandit taking fee stuff? Taking advantage of Doug like that, shame on you. :l2:
POKE. Sometimes you do mean well other times you are just mean. Sensitive my rear! I really do enjoy seeing you shut someone down when they need it. You are quite good at it. :laugh:
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Ok i read the whole thread and I will add my $.02. Although my $.02 is coming from a beginner Hobbyist builder at best, as I have stated in the past my building skills are very good as long as I have a good schematic to start with I lack in the theory dept. But I have been working on that as well. I do quite a bit of repairs for friends & family that play at home and out. As for myself I play with a group of guys every Thursday and we play small gigs once in a while.
I have used a MM toneclone in my JMP100 and if I knew the amp would have sounded that good I would have done it years ago. Maybe it was getting progressively worse as years went on and I did notice as it was over time???? Everyone used to praise the drake trannies and when mine went out I was at a loss as to what to get I searched for an original but my feeling was it was used and probably going to go out soon as well. IMO the MM is far superior to the drake but why is that as it is supposed to be an exact replica???????
I have also built two Hoffman plexi 50's one with the PT, OT & Choke I purchased from Doug which I think PT & OT were Mojo (heybor???) Doug may correct me if I am wrong and one with a MM OT & Choke I could not tell a substantial difference in those amps but preferred the MM. With these 2 I was able to AB side by side with a professional musician playing. He preferred the one with the MM as well.
I have tried both CT and MM OT / Chokes in DSL 50's and can say hands down the MM was better. I am about to do another with a Hammond at the owners request and am curious as to how it will preform.
Now the difference is at playing levels to me not bedroom levels.
Tubenit brings up the best question though how many would you buy???? From a hobbyist like myself if I built something like the Hoffman plexi 50 which I really liked I would upgrade it to MM transformers and give them a shot. Or for an amp which I use all the time like the DSL 50. But, To buy them for a 1st build on a trial basis probably not. Are they worth the money, that you have to answer yourself but I believe they are a quality Transformer. You much more electronically educated guys and senior moderators may be able to prove with facts they are not worth the extra money. As for me I no nothing about lamination's, windings, flux capacitor's or where the solid wires meet the stranded all i know is it comes in a box with instructions on how to install it and then I can see what it sounds like when I am done. So yes I have used them in my limited experience and yes if Doug sold them I would buy one every now and then. I would think drop ship would be the best avenue if they let you do it that way and you still get your discount.
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The links for all those tranny diagrams are next to every transformer on my tranny catalog page
Not sure I can fit any more links on that page
Still people don't see them
How much more information do you provide on your transformers on your website than Mercury does on theirs?
Here's for the Fenders;
http://el34world.com/Transformers/fentrans.htm (http://el34world.com/Transformers/fentrans.htm)
Here's for the Marshall's;
http://el34world.com/Transformers/marshall.htm (http://el34world.com/Transformers/marshall.htm)
Brad :icon_biggrin:
Stand Corrected. Good to know.
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Doug,
I know I'm new here, but please allow me to pitch in:
As for the Hammonds, I've found that some of their 2XX series of PTs run very hot, and they can be sucseptible to heater noise being coupled to the B+. On a couple of amps with the 276X PT, I've had to use a separate heater tranny to get the noise down.
The 3XX series is better built, runs cooler, and seems to better shielded from heater noise.
Although Edcor takes forever, you may be able to get them to make batches of trannies for you, and since they're all built to order, you can even customize stuff like OT secondaries.
RJ Guitars over at Ampgarage got them to make some 15-watt OTs with extra secondaries - I'd suggest PMing him about his experience with Edcor.
Edcor seems to be well built and perfrom well, so I'm sticking to 1) Heyboer (OT and PT), 2) Hammond 3XX series (PT), and Edcor PT and OT). The only ClassicTone tranny I'll buy is the paper-bobbin Deluxe OT.
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ok, thanks for the input
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Well if it has no value don't you feel like a bandit taking fee stuff?
My TOA does not allow openly discussing moderator fees or other benefits. :laugh:
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Well if it has no value don't you feel like a bandit taking fee stuff?
My TOA does not allow openly discussing moderator fees or other benefits. :laugh:
You are getting too pradictable. Remember me writing this a few posts ago.
I guess you are either going to have to dismiss me by being coy or simply ignore this. (http://el34world.com/Forum/Smileys/default/argue.gif)
What you goona do?
You now Sir have done both. Are we going to have to wait to see the 8 inch board? This will confuse no one because very few read my posts, but I send thanks to those who show the love.
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All I can say is that Doug's moderator fees are very reasonable. I don't mind the charges for the privilege. Heck, the "POWER" alone is well worth it! And he now accepts PayPal so it's very easy.
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This will confuse no one because very few read my posts, but I send thanks to those who show the love.
Well, I do...and the biggest problem with that is that I can't un-read them :BangHead:
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And he now accepts PayPal so it's very easy.
Aw man, I have to send him cash.
Brad :BangHead: :cussing:
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As for the Hammonds, I've found that some of their 2XX series of PTs run very hot, and they can be sucseptible to heater noise being coupled to the B+. On a couple of amps with the 276X PT, I've had to use a separate heater tranny to get the noise down.
The 3XX series is better built, runs cooler, and seems to better shielded from heater noise.
Ken - do you notice this heater coupling noise:- while running the amp at any power level?
- only at or near full power?
- on all 200 series of PT's or only with a few?
- I'm taking it that you've verified it's from these PT's exactly? (replaced them with some thing else and the noise went away OR you simply left it in and got another heater tranny to resolve?)
- you're sure that your other iron is placed properly & not too close to each other, etc.?
- have you tried elevating your heaters w/ DC? (did this help?)
Thanks-
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This will confuse no one because very few read my posts, but I send thanks to those who show the love.
Well, I do...and the biggest problem with that is that I can't un-read them :BangHead:
8 inch board, 8 inch board. Sluckey is up to something. It is really amazing if it is not any wider.
Now unread this. Maybe he will tell you. It is a BIG secret he is going to spring on us but he has to do some roofing first.
He is going to use MM even though there is no different. What a Knucklehead, right?
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As for the Hammonds, I've found that some of their 2XX series of PTs run very hot, and they can be sucseptible to heater noise being coupled to the B+. On a couple of amps with the 276X PT, I've had to use a separate heater tranny to get the noise down.
The 3XX series is better built, runs cooler, and seems to better shielded from heater noise.
Ken - do you notice this heater coupling noise:- while running the amp at any power level?
- only at or near full power?
- on all 200 series of PT's or only with a few?
- I'm taking it that you've verified it's from these PT's exactly? (replaced them with some thing else and the noise went away OR you simply left it in and got another heater tranny to resolve?)
- you're sure that your other iron is placed properly & not too close to each other, etc.?
- have you tried elevating your heaters w/ DC? (did this help?)
Thanks-
Great question. I have used a few 2xx Hammonds. On my last build I used one and it is very quiet. This is the AC15, however the ground scheme Sluckey came up with was J&J.
Were you maxing out the PT cause I have always heard they are overbuilt.
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I've used them in at least 4 builds and they are quiet BUT on one of them - when I ramp up the power to most to all of the way - I get some crazy coupling issues. Thankfully the amp reaches actual full power before this noise threshold occurs and I don't go past 4 or 5 anyways with it. It's got plenty of power/volume by this point.
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He is going to use MM even though there is no different. What a Knucklehead, right?
Yes....
I'll give him a pass this time
I'd use MM too if it was laying around....you never know,,it might sound ok :undecided:
....couldn't sound worse than that OEM crap :rolleyes:
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This is for you Ed. Now I'm dropping out of this thread before I get booted out!
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This is for you Ed. Now I'm dropping out of this thread before I get booted out!
What crap is this?
Post this and run and hide. Go ahead and untangle your panties and show me the real board.
When I get embarrassed about posting too much it doesn't last long once I realize that it is not my fault. I am gonna look over my layouts and see if I can see where all the wasted space is.
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Here's the schematic and tranny layout of the amp where I first saw the problem:
(http://i514.photobucket.com/albums/t346/jaxmoons04/talon_schematic.png)
(http://i514.photobucket.com/albums/t346/jaxmoons04/talon2_002001.jpg)
I saw a 120Hz ripple start to appear on the scope at just over half power into a resistive load. You can hear the hum start to develop pretty easily if you crank it through an attenuator.
The heaters are elevated 70V in this design (with 120V AC mains input).
It went away completely when I substituted a small shielded Hammond 6.3VAC/4ACT filament tranny, so that's what I've done on all my amps since.
My newest 2x6V6 amp is using a 372FX PT, and it is cool and quiet.
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Oh, sorry Ed. Wrong board. Don't cry.
Wiping my tears now. You really are a smart feller or :cry:
Thanks!
I see how you did it. Looks like you learned something from the AC15 layout.
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i have used the MMs and Classic Tone stuff with good results. Both seemed a bit pricey to me but they are both good products. I have also used Weber stuff and transformers that i bought here. They all work just fine as far as i can tell. i haven't heard any real discernable differences.
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Doug, I won't presume to tell you how to run your business.....buuuuttttt :l2:
How about you offer MM as a premium brand for those with deep pockets, and Mojo for the rest of us schlubs? Best of both worlds, unless they want you to offer their product exclusively. I think you might be able to do that without tying a lot up in inventory :dontknow:
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Doug, I won't presume to tell you how to run your business.....buuuuttttt :l2:
How about you offer MM as a premium brand for those with deep pockets, and Mojo for the rest of us schlubs? Best of both worlds, unless they want you to offer their product exclusively. I think you might be able to do that without tying a lot up in inventory :dontknow:
Yeah, that's what I was thinking of doing
Mojo's are not that cheap either
New Sensor had the best prices for iron for the longest time
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I don't build enough amps and I'm no expert in this field, I follow your advice when i have a question. If I can get away with a economical PT and save so I can spend that extra money on a OT where all that mojo comes out i would be inclined to do so. I've been reading and looking at those Edcor Trannies as well and they have been getting really good reviews. I don't care if I have to wait to have one built and the speed I oh it's not a issue. For the price of one Mercury I can get a set from Edcor or ClassicTone tho. From Doug's view it's business and are the numbers gonna make it worth while. From a hobbyist view strapped for cash, he's gonna bargain shop. If I can get all I need from one place and save on all that shipping, that's important. What ever you decide Doug I know it's not going to be a crappy product. I wish I got into this hobby a long time ago
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Regarding price, there have always been "cheap transformers" and "expensive transformers".
I found old transformers catalogs with price lists at Audiophool (http://audiophool.com/Techno.html). Those figures can be converted using an inflation calculator (http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/).
A cheapo Triad transformer for push-pull 6V6's (maybe the S-21A, probably better than the type Fender used) was listed as $5.80 in a 1952 Triad catalog. That would be $52 today.
An excellent UTC 20w OT for push-pull 5881's (the HA-136) was $18.00 in 1960, or $144 today. That was a good transformer, but short of UTC's top-of-the-line LS-35 (35w output from push-pull EL34's), which was $24.00, or ~$193 today.
Transformers for tube use were in vastly higher production then, so greater competition probably pushed prices downward. I think there's a place for a budget transformer option, and for Mercury's premium option (partly more expensive due to the claimed replication of original transformer characteristics).
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Just to add my .02, some friends and I did a blind test a few years ago of OT's in an AC30-type build. I clipped one of 4 transformers in circuit while a friend played and another listened. We used a Mojo, Edcor and 2 MM transformers. After going back and forth to get acquainted with each, it was decided that the 2 MM's were best. It wasn't subtle.
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MM guarantees you will here a difference and they have a 10 year warranty
That's a confident company there.
I have begun to add some Mojo tranny's to my stock
They are Heyboer
Not much not to like about thst
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I agree the Edcor stuff is great but the turn around time is a big bummer. I've used the Classic Tone Twin Reverb
OT for a twin type clone build and it sounds great running a quad of 6l6's with about a 535v b+ for over the last two years. Next build is gonna be all custom wound Heyboer stuff.
There is no way I would buy a MM transformer when there are great sounding options that are sooo much cheaper.
I've used Hammond, Heyboer, Classic Tone and Edcor. They have all sounded fantastic. My preference is Edcor but those are made-to-order and you have to wait about six weeks. It certainly helps that Edcor looks better than all the others and is cheaper than all the others, but they also sound fantastic... and they have been around for a LONG time.
Now, if you could somehow manage to be the only person who sells Edcor iron "off-the-shelf" I think you would make a tidy profit indeed.
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I built two nearly identical Princeton Reverbs, one with MM and one with Doug's transformers. I couldn't hear any significant difference and did play them side by side. However, both times I've built an amp for someone else they specifically requested Mecury Magnetics iron. Any boutique amp builder who uses MM iron mentions it. Are MM transformers worth the extra cost? "Yes" if the guy playing the amp thinks they are.
Doug, if you can handle two lines of OTs, then please add some MM. If only one line, please carry something more cost effective.
As far as which MM OTs to start with, I'd suggest 5E3, AB763, and a Plexi.
It would be nice if you carried a couple of basic Hammond OTs for single-ended amps.
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I am adding Mojo tranny's to stock right now
They are Heyboer's and very nice quality
Plus I can sell them at the 100 piece price and save you guys some $$$
MM possibly some day
CT and Edcor, I doubt it since they sell direct at less than retail
There's no incentive for merchants for thos two companies
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:happy1: i spent hours yesterday reading up on the companies people have been name dropping hear and I got a headache. I will buy one of those Mojo OT for your Plexi
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Hi All,
This thread has been going a while, but I'd like to add my compliments about my experiences with MM.
All too often folks complain about poor service and so on, so its refreshing to deal with someone as helpful as Patrick at MM. With myself he's been always friendly and helpful with advice and with pricing too.
I bought a replacement 125A29A OT (and PT) for a 1960 Vibrasonic recently. Unfortunately the wrong (Fender) OT was in the amp as the original had been replaced with one for a 1972 VibrOsonic that has 4 x 6L6s rather than the two 6L6s of the VibrAsonic.
Although both OTs are rated at 100W, its not really a fair comparison, however I have to say that the difference is NOT subtle. The MM results in a lovely deep, rich, complex bass. It is not plummy or woolly sounding at all. The top end is not harsh and the whole sound can best be described as being musical. It's extraordinarily challenging to convey in words what something sounds like. One mans "harsh" is another man's "bright" for example. In comparison the Fender was bass-light and the top end was a bit harsh.
However I do have a set of MM trannies for a 5E3 so I'll be able to compare these with the ones I bought from Doug many years ago.
The only thing about MM and others is that they are all made in the USA, so shipping over here to the UK makes it really expensive with the shipping charges, customs, VAT and handling charge.
I would have loved to have tried OTs from different manufacturers such as Cleartone as I had heard good things about them from another Vibrasonic owner who used one in preference to MM, but the shipping charges just killed the possibility of that.
Anyway hats off to Patrick for providing such a good service. Thanks mate! :icon_biggrin:
Cheers, VB