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Hoffman Amps Forum image Author Topic: Fender Twin Amp 6G8  (Read 39251 times)

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Offline sluckey

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Re: Can it be fixed ?
« Reply #50 on: November 13, 2015, 08:10:26 am »
I think that most of your hum issues are caused by poor layout based on your choice of chassis. The 6G8 chassis dimensions are 26.1875" x 1.586" x 8.25", think long and narrow. But you chose to build a short and wide chassis (why???), so now you have to squeeze the tube lineup and front panel controls lineup to fit your chassis. But you are still using a board designed to fit the long and narrow chassis. This causes some very long wires to go from the board to the sockets and control panel. Plenty of opportunity to pick up extra hum.

The cap board needs to be moved away from the sensitive preamp section and input jacks. The first three filter caps are used in the power amp and have lot's of BIG 120Hz AC ripple (hum) on them. This hum is easily picked up by the very sensitive input section. The wiring from all 4 of your input jacks pass right by all this noise and hum. So, move the cap board.

Moving the cap board reveals another big layout problem... OT placement. All 4 of your very sensitive input wires are passing right by the OT wires. The OT wires are carrying the biggest signals in the amp. This is a huge design flaw.  Also, your speaker jacks are mounted near the first preamp tube and your OT secondary wires (high current carriers) are routed very close to the preamp tube. So, move the OT and the speaker jacks and keep all OT wires away from sensitive preamp circuits.

Using properly shielded wire for your 4 input wires will help with the present cap board and OT placement issues, but I'm afraid it's like putting a band aid on a broken leg. I know that moving that board and OT will be more difficult to do than to say. And you won't know if things will improve until you move them. I'm really skeptical about the success of this project in the confines of the chassis you have chosen.

I know you have a lot of time and money invested in this amp. And I love the sound of the harmonic vibrator circuit. So, what to do? I'd cut my loses on the time and put all those components in a proper chassis. There are 6G8 chassis for sale on eBay right now. Then study the original Fender layout. Collect as many pics of 6G8s as you can. Then wire the amp as close as you can to Fender's proven layout. And ask questions about anything you are not sure of, especially concerning grounding.

This is the first time I've ever recommended changing the chassis, but I really think it will take less time than trying band aids on your present chassis. An I'm confident you will have better results in a proper chassis.
A schematic, layout, and hi-rez pics are very useful for troubleshooting your amp. Don't wait to be asked. JUST DO IT!

Offline uki

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Re: Can it be fixed ?
« Reply #51 on: November 13, 2015, 08:23:15 am »
@Sluckey thanks for your honest !

But you chose to build a short and wide chassis (why???), so now you have to squeeze the tube lineup and front panel controls lineup to fit your chassis. But you are still using a board designed to fit the long and narrow chassis. This causes some very long wires to go from the board to the sockets and control panel.
I've found that out when I was already soldering those wires  :sad2:  leaving the feeling that would cause problems.
I didn't want to have one of those long bulk head cabinets, had some of those before, transport is difficult and they take space.

Poor chassis layout, my idea was to compact it in a smaller case, but that seen to be a mistake, the lack of experience and knowledge paid the price.
My toughts are to remake the main circuit board removing the tremolo and maybe even the second channel making a much smaller board to be able to move it alway from all that AC, but probably that isn't a good idea either, more planning 1st than action have to be done.

I'm open to other suggestions.

Thanks.

@Willabe , I did change the filter caps and main board grounds.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2015, 08:44:48 am by uki »
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Offline uki

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Re: Can it be fixed ?
« Reply #52 on: November 13, 2015, 09:15:29 am »
I did turn it up yesterday late in the night after done with the grounding changes, I didn't had much chance to really hear it, but now it is on again and seen like the hum not as much as before but still there. Maybe there is still a change to get rid of it ? Also when i plug or unplug the guitar cable there is a sound of it been amplified, a bad tube maybe?


Oh and by the way IT SOUNDS AMAZING , MARVELOUS!!!
« Last Edit: November 13, 2015, 09:21:21 am by uki »
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Offline sluckey

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Re: Can it be fixed ?
« Reply #53 on: November 13, 2015, 10:23:14 am »
Shield the 4 wires that run from the input jacks to the board. Run these shielded wires over the top of the cap board. This will get them away from the OT.

What size is your chassis? I want to play around with layout to see if I can come up with anything useful.
A schematic, layout, and hi-rez pics are very useful for troubleshooting your amp. Don't wait to be asked. JUST DO IT!

Offline Toxophilite

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Re: Can it be fixed ?
« Reply #54 on: November 13, 2015, 10:29:18 am »
Could you move the choke right beside the PT , move the OT as close to the choke (but on the tube socket edge of the amp) as possible and then put a cap doghouse on the outside of the chassis and move the cap board to it?

I think there would be room especially if the cap doghouse is run front to back with the preamp filter caps near the inputs.
Move the speaker jack(s) accordingly.







« Last Edit: November 13, 2015, 10:32:59 am by Toxophilite »

Offline Willabe

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Re: Can it be fixed ?
« Reply #55 on: November 13, 2015, 10:49:49 am »
It looks like you have the OT secondary speaker wires running across the back, then up the side by the preamp end of eyelet board, then running past the preamp tube sockets over to the speaker jacks. That's a long run of OT secondary wires that have the most signal current going past very low signal level components. 

Can you run those OT secondary wires more direct, away from the preamp circuity and in between the PI and 1st power tube that's closest to the PI tube?

Or maybe up in the air above the eyelet board?

And what is the gray wire that's running/laying parallel with the OT secondary wires? That could be a problem too?
« Last Edit: November 13, 2015, 10:53:49 am by Willabe »

Offline uki

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Re: Can it be fixed ?
« Reply #56 on: November 13, 2015, 10:54:33 am »
Shield the 4 wires that run from the input jacks to the board. Run these shielded wires over the top of the cap board. This will get them away from the OT.

What size is your chassis? I want to play around with layout to see if I can come up with anything useful.

Man I was playing on it for about 25 mins or more THAT IS A SWEET SOUND AMP !! 
I got a chassis blueprint I did before making it, the amp parts were all planned before the start of building, I'm no engineer thou  :laugh:.
The chassis layout pic is attached.


Could you move the choke right beside the PT , move the OT as close to the choke (but on the tube socket edge of the amp) as possible and then put a cap doghouse on the outside of the chassis and move the cap board to it?

I think there would be room especially if the cap doghouse is run front to back with the preamp filter caps near the inputs.
Move the speaker jack(s) accordingly.

Thanks for the input Toxophilite, I'll keep those suggestion in the list, and use it as last resort, gonna try 1st the less intrusive suggestions.

It looks like you have the OT secondary speaker wires running across the back, then up the side by the preamp end of eyelet board, then running past the preamp tube sockets over to the speaker jacks. That's a long run of OT secondary wires that have the most signal current going past very low signal level components. 

Can you run those OT secondary wires more direct, away from the preamp circuity and in between the PI and 1st power tube that's closest to the PI tube?
Yes it could be possible to change that ,what about shielding those wires ? My 1st though when reading your suggestion was to move the sockets but there is not much where to go !!! So what about shielding those 2 wires, I actually though about shielding the jacks as well with a small shielded box, which end of the  shielded wire should be grounded, how about that ?

Here is the chassis layout:
« Last Edit: November 13, 2015, 10:57:07 am by uki »
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Offline Willabe

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Re: Can it be fixed ?
« Reply #57 on: November 13, 2015, 10:59:21 am »
And what is the gray wire that's running/laying parallel with the OT secondary wires? That could be a problem too?

Offline Willabe

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Re: Can it be fixed ?
« Reply #58 on: November 13, 2015, 11:06:37 am »
Can you post a picture of the top side of the chassis so we can see how/where you placed the PT/OT and choke?

Offline uki

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Re: Can it be fixed ?
« Reply #59 on: November 13, 2015, 11:09:24 am »
And what is the gray wire that's running/laying parallel with the OT secondary wires? That could be a problem too?

That gray wire is comming from one of the preamp tubes, pin 5 to the 1st filter cap in the preamp side of the cap board. Take it away from the OT 2nds ?

What about shielding those OT 2nds and the jacks ? Sounds good ?

Can you post a picture of the top side of the chassis so we can see how/where you placed the PT/OT and choke?

There is one few posts above! But ill post again.
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Offline Willabe

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Re: Can it be fixed ?
« Reply #60 on: November 13, 2015, 11:14:25 am »
And what is the gray wire that's running/laying parallel with the OT secondary wires? That could be a problem too?

That gray wire is comming from one of the preamp tubes, pin 5 to the 1st filter cap in the preamp side of the cap board. Take it away from the OT 2nds?

Pin 5? On a 12A_ _ 7 that's 1 of the 3 heater pins.

Offline Willabe

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Re: Can it be fixed ?
« Reply #61 on: November 13, 2015, 11:16:07 am »
There is one few posts above! But ill post again.

Thanks, I missed where it was.

Offline Willabe

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Re: Can it be fixed ?
« Reply #62 on: November 13, 2015, 11:19:35 am »
What about shielding those OT 2nds and the jacks ? Sounds good ?

 :dontknow:    I'd try moving them 1st. Just moving them might be enough?

But like Sluckey said, the speaker jacks are right next to a preamp tube.

I think you could move those 2 speaker jacks towards the power tube end of the chassis. Would be better then it is now.

Offline uki

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Re: Can it be fixed ?
« Reply #63 on: November 13, 2015, 11:37:19 am »
And what is the gray wire that's running/laying parallel with the OT secondary wires? That could be a problem too?
Pin 5? On a 12A_ _ 7 that's 1 of the 3 heater pins.

Ooops my mistake I've counted 4 and 5 as it was one, the pin where the gray wire is at, is the pin 6.  Tube type is ECC83 S .

:dontknow:    I'd try moving them 1st. Just moving them might be enough?

But like Sluckey said, the speaker jacks are right next to a preamp tube.

I think you could move those 2 speaker jacks towards the power tube end of the chassis. Would be better then it is now.
Not much where to go with the jacks, what if there is a small shielded box covering the jacks and the wires from the OT ?  There is just enough room for it, would that work?
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Offline Willabe

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Re: Can it be fixed ?
« Reply #64 on: November 13, 2015, 11:48:12 am »
ECC83 = 12AX7. Pin 6 = plate. Still a long way around to go from the filter cap to the tubes plate.

You could move to jack in between the switch and the 2nd jack. Then move the OT secondary wires up and over the eyelet board up in the air. That's what I would try 1st.  :dontknow:




Offline uki

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Re: Can it be fixed ?
« Reply #65 on: November 13, 2015, 12:01:27 pm »
ECC83 = 12AX7. Pin 6 = plate. Still a long way around to go from the filter cap to the tubes plate.

You could move to jack in between the switch and the 2nd jack. Then move the OT secondary wires up and over the eyelet board up in the air. That's what I would try 1st.  :dontknow:

You mean those 2 wires and jacks are better alway from V1 and V2 ?

PRR mentioned to solder that blue or black wire from the PT to the "-" leg of the power section of the filter caps, but I don't know which one of those 2 wires is the one he mentioned, colors aren't correct.
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Offline Willabe

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Re: Can it be fixed ?
« Reply #66 on: November 13, 2015, 12:14:09 pm »
You mean those 2 wires and jacks are better alway from V1 and V2 ?

YES.  :icon_biggrin:

Most guitar amps are laid out keeping the ACV, power cord/PT primary wires/AC power switch/fuse AND all the hi DCV/hi DC current wires and components as far away as possible from the low voltage/low current/low signal components, the input jacks/preamp circuits/preamp tubes.

Both Sluckey and PRR have said things about this to you in this thread already. So have I.     

Offline Willabe

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Re: Can it be fixed ?
« Reply #67 on: November 13, 2015, 12:17:44 pm »
Your High Volt PT winding has three leads. On Fender they are Red-Red-Red-Yellow; yours seems to be plain Yellow.

Where does that (Red)Yellow wire go?

It MUST go direct to the first filter cap "-" leg.

It seems to snake off in the other direction and get lost?

That wire has BIG current spikes. If it goes anyplace except the first filter cap, it will inject buzz everywhere.

Grey cases. Hoffman returns the yellow, the first-cap, and all other grounds to one transformer bolt. This works because the resistance of the bolt is very-very small, the BIG current spikes induce very-very small buzz, he does not have a problem. There are other variations which "do work". However since you have buzz, I would trace that wire and wonder what trouble it may be injecting along the way.

Offline Willabe

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Re: Can it be fixed ?
« Reply #68 on: November 13, 2015, 12:22:19 pm »
I think that most of your hum issues are caused by poor layout based on your choice of chassis. The 6G8 chassis dimensions are 26.1875" x 1.586" x 8.25", think long and narrow. But you chose to build a short and wide chassis (why???), so now you have to squeeze the tube lineup and front panel controls lineup to fit your chassis. But you are still using a board designed to fit the long and narrow chassis. This causes some very long wires to go from the board to the sockets and control panel. Plenty of opportunity to pick up extra hum.

The cap board needs to be moved away from the sensitive preamp section and input jacks. The first three filter caps are used in the power amp and have lot's of BIG 120Hz AC ripple (hum) on them. This hum is easily picked up by the very sensitive input section. The wiring from all 4 of your input jacks pass right by all this noise and hum. So, move the cap board.

Moving the cap board reveals another big layout problem... OT placement. All 4 of your very sensitive input wires are passing right by the OT wires. The OT wires are carrying the biggest signals in the amp. This is a huge design flaw.  Also, your speaker jacks are mounted near the first preamp tube and your OT secondary wires (high current carriers) are routed very close to the preamp tube. So, move the OT and the speaker jacks and keep all OT wires away from sensitive preamp circuits.

Using properly shielded wire for your 4 input wires will help with the present cap board and OT placement issues, but I'm afraid it's like putting a band aid on a broken leg. I know that moving that board and OT will be more difficult to do than to say. And you won't know if things will improve until you move them. I'm really skeptical about the success of this project in the confines of the chassis you have chosen......................

Offline uki

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Re: Can it be fixed ?
« Reply #69 on: November 13, 2015, 01:44:19 pm »
I'm going to do the other suggested measures, starting with shielding the sensitive wires mentioned above.
I got a small recording sample of the amp. I'll let you guys know as soon as the changes are done.
The quality is not as it should be due to size limit it is a 60ish seconds audio sample.
Rename the file extention to .mp3 can't upload in .mp3 format. 
From 6G8-sample.jpg to 6G8-sample.mp3 , I think that will work.


Thanks a lot for all the help, you guys rock !!
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Offline sluckey

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Re: Can it be fixed ?
« Reply #70 on: November 13, 2015, 03:41:23 pm »
I didn't hear any hum???
A schematic, layout, and hi-rez pics are very useful for troubleshooting your amp. Don't wait to be asked. JUST DO IT!

Offline Willabe

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Re: Can it be fixed ?
« Reply #71 on: November 13, 2015, 03:51:59 pm »
I can't get it open.  :dontknow:    :BangHead:

Offline sluckey

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Re: Can it be fixed ?
« Reply #72 on: November 13, 2015, 03:57:29 pm »
Don't try to open it from the net. Save it to the desktop. Then change the file extension from .jpg to .mp3. Now open it.
A schematic, layout, and hi-rez pics are very useful for troubleshooting your amp. Don't wait to be asked. JUST DO IT!

Offline uki

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Re: Can it be fixed ?
« Reply #73 on: November 13, 2015, 04:09:39 pm »
I didn't hear any hum???
I did reduce the quality of the audio to fit the size, there is hum thou in the normal quality audio, can't upload thou too big.
The quality of this audio is actually really bad. The original is much better.
I got one file with just the hum.

I can't get it open.  :dontknow:    :BangHead:

Rename the file from 6G8-sample.jpg to 6G8-sample.mp3

Maybe you have the extentions hidden, if you are using Windows, in the explorer under the menu tools > folder options(or something like that)> then the 1st tab there is a list of many things, search for something like show/hide known file extentions. Mark or Unmark , then you can see the extentions. Or if you use "" quotes while naming the file it will work as well, but extentions will remain hidden.

Same as before rename the file from 6G8-hum.jpg to 6G8-hum.mp3.
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Offline sluckey

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Re: Can it be fixed ?
« Reply #74 on: November 13, 2015, 04:24:32 pm »
What were the conditions for that hum recording? Volume set to zero? Volume set to max? Does the volume control even affect the hum? Hum on both channels? Only one channel? If so, which channel?

A schematic, layout, and hi-rez pics are very useful for troubleshooting your amp. Don't wait to be asked. JUST DO IT!

Offline Willabe

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Re: Can it be fixed ?
« Reply #75 on: November 13, 2015, 04:27:28 pm »
I can't figure it out. That's all right.

Offline Willabe

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Re: Can it be fixed ?
« Reply #76 on: November 13, 2015, 04:32:35 pm »
I was reading what PRR said about the PT B+ CT.

You have 3 very long untrimmed wires coming out of the PT. 2 go to the PT ground lug bolt. I think 1 is the B+ CT and the other is the heater CT, or is an internal shield? Anyway 1 of those is your PT B+ CT.

All 3 of those wires that you have looped around need to be trimmed way down in length.

What PT are do you have in there?  Does it have a heater CT? Or did you use 2 resistors for a faux heater CT?

If not there's a source of hum.   
« Last Edit: November 13, 2015, 05:38:42 pm by Willabe »

Offline uki

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Re: Can it be fixed ?
« Reply #77 on: November 13, 2015, 05:49:29 pm »
What were the conditions for that hum recording? Volume set to zero? Volume set to max? Does the volume control even affect the hum? Hum on both channels? Only one channel? If so, which channel?
The hum happen in both channels at zero or any volume, in the second channel there is a whistle like sound as the volume is turned up and it changes as the volume goes up. Could play with that just spinning the volume control would sound like a feedback modulation !! :laugh:
In the channel 1 the there is a leak of sound with volume at zero, not sure if this happen in the second channel as well, didn't check.


I can't figure it out. That's all right.
Save the file in the computer where suites you best, put quotes around the name while remaning it like this:   "file_name.mp3" 
that will fix the extention and you'll be able to listen/open the audio file.

I was reading what PRR said about the PT B+ CT.

You have 3 very long untrimmed wires coming out of the PT. 2 go to the PT ground lug bolt. I think 1 is the B+ CT and the other is the heater CT, or is an internal shield? Anyway 1 of those is your PT B+ CT.

All 3 of those wires that you have looped around need to be trimmed way down in length.

What PT are do you have in there?   


There is a schematic above, but I'll post again.
Yes I know those wires need to be trimmed, I just need to find out 1st which one goes to the minus legs of the filter caps, does it go to the power portion of the filter caps ?
The PT was made by a company down here it is a copy of the fender PT 67233 or 125P7D or 022814 , I took the schematic to them and they made it for me. Here their website: http://www.wmtransformadores.com.br/

The colors maybe different for the CTs, that is why the doubt. A guy helped me with it, but I didn't have notes about that.  :BangHead: I should have.
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Offline Willabe

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Re: Can it be fixed ?
« Reply #78 on: November 13, 2015, 06:03:44 pm »
Ok, you have a yellow wire going to the bias/B+ rectifier board. If you have -bias dcv at the tubes then that yellow wire should be the bias tap.

And you have a blue and a black wire going to the PT ground lug. They have to be the B+ CT and the heater CT.



Offline Willabe

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Re: Can it be fixed ?
« Reply #79 on: November 13, 2015, 06:05:26 pm »
Sluckey could he have the B+ CT and the bias tap switched? 

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Re: Can it be fixed ?
« Reply #80 on: November 13, 2015, 06:09:24 pm »
Ok, you have a yellow wire going to the bias/B+ rectifier board. If you have -bias dcv at the tubes then that yellow wire should be the bias tap.

And you have a blue and a black wire going to the PT ground lug. They have to be the B+ CT and the heater CT.

Could this, if inverted, cause hum ?  How to identify the wires with multmeter ?
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Re: Can it be fixed ?
« Reply #81 on: November 13, 2015, 06:25:40 pm »
Could this, if inverted, cause hum ? 

Yes I think so.

How to identify the wires with multmeter ?

Yes.

The PT B+ CT should read, resistance, about 1/2 way in between the 2 B+ red wire leads.

The bias tap should have a little more resistance from 1 B+ red wire then from the other B+ wire. Not as centered resistance wise as the B+ CT.

The heater CT should read in resistance about 1/2 way in between the 2 green heater wires. I think you need to take all the tubes out to measure them or you'll be measuring the tube filaments too and that will through off the reading.

If it were me I would fix/trim those 3 PT wires 1st, then listen for hum. The longer they are the more noise they can push/transmit into the air that can/will get picked up by other circuitry in the amp. That's why you shorten them. 

If there's still hum then I would use shielded wire on the input jacks.

Sometimes there's 3 or 4 things causing an amp to hum, as you track them down 1 at a time each fix will get rid of some hum, the next fix will get rid of some more hum.

You have that very long B+ CT wire looping around AND the very long OT secondary speaker wires running around the end of the preamp end of the circuit board and preamp tubes.

These both could be major hum sources.

You could run the OT secondary wires outside the chassis over to the speaker jacks then drill a hole there, use a rubber grommet in the chassis, then feed those 2 wires into the hole. I'd use some type of cloth insulator tubing or shrink wrap around them, on the outside of the chassis, to give them extra protection.

This will keep them away from the circuit board and preamp tubes and the chassis will act as shielding.       
« Last Edit: November 13, 2015, 06:37:46 pm by Willabe »

Offline sluckey

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Re: Can it be fixed ?
« Reply #82 on: November 13, 2015, 07:40:26 pm »
Quote
Sluckey could he have the B+ CT and the bias tap switched? 
Maybe. Easy to check. I'm betting the blue wire is the bias tap and the yellow wire is the center tap, which means they are reversed.

Quote
Could this, if inverted, cause hum ?  How to identify the wires with multmeter ?
Connect one meter lead to chassis. Measure the AC voltage on pins 4 and 6 of the rectifier socket. ***CORRECTION*** Measure the AC voltage on the red wires that connect to the rectifier diodes on the small board. If they are the same (or close), then it's wired correctly. If they are not the same then you have the CT and bias tap reversed.

Whichever wire you determine is really the center tap needs to be trimmed and CONNECTED TO THE PT BOLT. Then you run a separate 18AWG stranded wire from the cap board power amp ground to the same PT bolt that the center tap wire is connected to.

EDIT... see correction in red above. Sorry 'bout that.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2015, 08:09:00 pm by sluckey »
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Re: Can it be fixed ?
« Reply #83 on: November 13, 2015, 08:03:44 pm »
Quote
Could this, if inverted, cause hum ?  How to identify the wires with multmeter ?
Connect one meter lead to chassis. Measure the AC voltage on pins 4 and 6 of the rectifier socket. If they are the same (or close), then it's wired correctly. If they are not the same then you have the CT and bias tap reversed.

Ah, much easier way.

The bias tap is not centered on the B+ leads so that will throw off the B+ leads ACV's from one another/won't be the same, at the rectifier tube socket.   

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Re: Can it be fixed ?
« Reply #84 on: November 16, 2015, 10:23:14 am »
Quote
The bias tap is not centered on the B+ leads so that will throw off the B+ leads ACV's from one another/won't be the same, at the rectifier tube socket.
Yes. And that will produce a huge 60Hz ripple that may be difficult or even impossible to remove with the filter caps.

So, uki. Have you sorted out the PT wiring yet? And?...
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Re: Can it be fixed ?
« Reply #85 on: November 16, 2015, 01:48:11 pm »
Quote
The bias tap is not centered on the B+ leads so that will throw off the B+ leads ACV's from one another/won't be the same, at the rectifier tube socket.
Yes. And that will produce a huge 60Hz ripple that may be difficult or even impossible to remove with the filter caps.

Ahhh, I wasn't sure if that would cause a noise problem. I did think that the AC sine wave from the PT B+ would be an odd/ugly shape. And I thought the PT wouldn't like being wired/used like that. 

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Re: Can it be fixed ?
« Reply #86 on: November 16, 2015, 02:10:49 pm »
Quote
The bias tap is not centered on the B+ leads so that will throw off the B+ leads ACV's from one another/won't be the same, at the rectifier tube socket.
Yes. And that will produce a huge 60Hz ripple that may be difficult or even impossible to remove with the filter caps.

So, uki. Have you sorted out the PT wiring yet? And?...

I did read the wires both red are at 320-321vac
The yellow going to the diode is at 48vac 

Working on it, also I got some shielded wire to replace the ones comming from the input jacks, You said to go with those wires over the filter caps ? The OT is right bellow the cap board, that is the reason why ? Replace all pots wires as well yes, for shielded ones?

Tell me if those wires are good enough, in the pic, the yellow wire is the type that is in the amp:
« Last Edit: November 16, 2015, 02:31:03 pm by uki »
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Re: Can it be fixed ?
« Reply #87 on: November 16, 2015, 02:14:42 pm »
That shielded cable looks fine. Hold off on using it for now. Take care of the PT wiring first.

Do one thing at a time.
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Re: Can it be fixed ?
« Reply #88 on: November 16, 2015, 02:57:47 pm »
That shielded cable looks fine. Hold off on using it for now. Take care of the PT wiring first.

Do one thing at a time.

The wires are trimmed and soldered, no audible difference on hum thou, what next ?
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Re: Can it be fixed ?
« Reply #89 on: November 16, 2015, 04:09:45 pm »
Shield the four input wires and get them away from the OT wires. Look at the 6G8-A layout. It has the 68K resistors mounted directly on the NOR channel input jacks and a single wire that runs from the jacks to V1 pin 2. Same deal for the VIB channel inputs and V2. I would do it like that.
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Re: Can it be fixed ?
« Reply #90 on: November 16, 2015, 04:37:50 pm »
Shield the four input wires and get them away from the OT wires. Look at the 6G8-A layout. It has the 68K resistors mounted directly on the NOR channel input jacks and a single wire that runs from the jacks to V1 pin 2. Same deal for the VIB channel inputs and V2. I would do it like that.

Already did the 1st input!
What about the pots? Doing at the moment the volume and tones of 1st channel. And moving the wires from bellow the cap board to above.

The treble pot is inverted treble goes down as it is turned up, I did exactly as in the layout, was this done this way originally? How do I come about to reverse the action? I've never seen a 4 pin pot before this ones, do those have 2 wipers, or what?
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Re: Can it be fixed ?
« Reply #91 on: November 16, 2015, 06:07:22 pm »
I would connect a shielded wire DIRECTLY between the wiper of each volume pot and pin 7 of V1 and V2.
 
Your treble pot is probably wired incorrectly. That pot is a standard pot with only one wiper... BUT... It has a fixed tap at 70KΩ resistance as measured between the tap and the bottom lug as shown on the schematic. You'll have to use your ohm meter to determine which lugs are which unless you have a data sheet for the pot.
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Re: Can it be fixed ?
« Reply #92 on: November 16, 2015, 09:47:21 pm »
I would connect a shielded wire DIRECTLY between the wiper of each volume pot and pin 7 of V1 and V2.
Will do !

 
Your treble pot is probably wired incorrectly. That pot is a standard pot with only one wiper... BUT... It has a fixed tap at 70KΩ resistance as measured between the tap and the bottom lug as shown on the schematic. You'll have to use your ohm meter to determine which lugs are which unless you have a data sheet for the pot.
Do you mean wiper?  "between the wiper and the bottom lug".

Hmmm I've been looking at this for the last hour or so and my conclusion is: that pot is really inverted in the layout, maybe because of that tap, at zero position it is trebler because of the 0.00025 cap, and in the other side it is bassy because of the 0.005 cap with one leg to ground. I've followed it exactly as is in the layout. Reverting the outer pins of the pot wont give the same result because of the position of the tap pin. Can't swap tap and wiper, if my logic is correct. Is the layout incorrect ?  :dontknow:  I think the layout is incorrect.

I got a pic(fixed):
« Last Edit: November 17, 2015, 01:57:11 am by uki »
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Re: Can it be fixed ?
« Reply #93 on: November 16, 2015, 11:24:05 pm »
Layout is fine. You just wired the pot wrong. Wire it like this...
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Re: Can it be fixed ?
« Reply #94 on: November 17, 2015, 12:03:52 am »
Oh I see ! The pins in the pot are not in the same order as in the layout. Thanks for clarify that !!
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Re: Can it be fixed ?
« Reply #95 on: November 17, 2015, 07:14:50 am »
Quote from: sluckey
It has a fixed tap at 70KΩ resistance as measured between the tap and the bottom lug as shown on the schematic.
Quote from: uki
Do you mean wiper?  "between the wiper and the bottom lug".
No. I meant exactly what I said.

Look at the schematic in the pic I posted...
1 = top
2 = wiper
3 = bottom
4 = 70K tap

Using your ohm meter, you should have fixed 350K between 1 and 3. You should have fixed 70K between 3 and 4. You should have a variable resistance between 2 and any other lug.
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Re: Can it be fixed ?
« Reply #96 on: November 17, 2015, 07:39:19 am »
That tapped Alpha pot you have looks quite different from the tapped pots that were available when Fender built that amp. Still functions the same though.

This is what that tapped pot would have looked like back in 1960. This is what the original Fender layout is based on. Make more sense now?
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Re: Can it be fixed ?
« Reply #97 on: November 17, 2015, 09:14:26 am »
That tapped Alpha pot you have looks quite different from the tapped pots that were available when Fender built that amp. Still functions the same though.

This is what that tapped pot would have looked like back in 1960. This is what the original Fender layout is based on. Make more sense now?

Oh yeah makes lot of sense now !!  Man you really know amp stuff !!! Thanks for teaching me this and all else, I really appreaciate it !!   :happy1:

I'm replacing the wires, as soon as it is done I'll post. Got some work to finish 1st thou.
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Re: Can it be fixed ?
« Reply #98 on: November 19, 2015, 08:50:45 am »
I have replaced the wires of the input jacks and pots for the shielded ones, the hum still there
but I've noticed a slightly improvement in the NOR channel. The VIB channel is noisier,
here is the good news, when turning up the volume the whistle/squeal is now gone!!!

I havent replaced the Presence pot wire, due to its position, I'm not sure what route to take, it is right beside de PT,
now the new cable, should it go around the PT as is now as far as possible ? I take short route above the PT is a nono ?

I know the OT secondary wires need some work too. Willabe suggested to go under the chassis  :sad2: that is gonna be awful,   
can it be shielded or pass inside an aluminum or copper pipe ? Would it insulate those wires ? :think1: Would that work?

Besides replacing those wires what else can be done to eliminate the hum, I've the feeling about those wires from the vibrato pre-amp tubes all packed right beside the heater wires should be shielded as well ? 

What next ?
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Re: Can it be fixed ?
« Reply #99 on: November 24, 2015, 08:07:28 am »
 :think1:
Hey guys I've found some great deal of information it looks like, something nobody has mention in this thread yet, the coupling capacitors have a outer foil side leg. The cap should be installed with this side of the leg to the lowest impedance side of the circuit.

Now how much hum it would do if lets say half of more the caps are backwards, or at least the most sensitive ones in the input part of the circuit?

I got some videos with good info on this one:

This one is long but the 1st 5-7minutes will do.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnR_DLd1PDI

This ones are short:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1f-LdpJiAk4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BD5pxxwxe0

I got this images with the outer foil side of the caps marked with an F, which ones are reversed, which way those caps should have the outer foil leg soldered?  :w2:

Thanks in advance!
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