Guns anyone?

[EL34]

I'd say your grouping was good enough by the sound of it

Did you get to blast off several quickies to see how you do in fast firing mode?

I haven't shot my Glocks enough yet.

I plan on going to an indoor range soon and blow through some ammo

I got to shoot both Glocks a couple weeks ago, but only 1 mag each or 30 rounds total

I was shooting at 8 inch targets maybe 25 to 30 feet away and putting them all on the target
The Glock 17 with the laser was way easier to get smaller groups than the Glock 26.

Both Glocks were very nice to shoot

I also got to blast several shells through my 12 ga shotgun with the pistol grip
It was a beast and not something I plan on doing very much
That thing kicked like a mule and was real rough on the right wrist
That would be the go to weapon if I ever had to jump up in the middle of the night and take action.

[tubenit]

I was shooting at 8 inch targets maybe 25 to 30 feet away and putting them all on the target

OK, I appreciate the reference point!  That's definitely better than what I was doing overall. I've got some more work to do.  I think I can get there, maybe?

I'm reasonably confidant that I could typically hit 8 inch targets with the revolver at that range.

I did not try firing rapidly but plan to do that next time out just to see where I am?  I will wait until most of my groupings are
within the size of my hand before I practice shooting rapidly.

THANKS for the response!  I appreciate it.

Best regards, Jeff

[EL34]

I got to go to the indoor range soon.

Taking my two Glocks and my AR15 to dial in the scope and laser sights I got for it
The AR15 is just as much fun to shoot as the Pistols


EDIT: I found my 3 pistol targets and circled the holes
The outer circle is 8 inches in diameter

The last image is a blank target.  You can print them on a 8 1/2 x 11 sheet of paper.
I put 1 inch grid lines on it so you can adjust the sights and a scope

[tubenit]

I would say that is very nice shooting. Groupings are pretty close to one another for sure. Mine were not that good with the semi-auto.

Thanks for the visual.

Both times I went to the indoor range, there were people next to me.  3 next to me the first time and 2 this recent time. Honestly, their shooting was way all over the place. They had a silouette of a person and there were holes spread everyway and including a significant number outside the silouette.   With the group of 3, there target was about 5 to 8 feet closer than mine.

Ironically, my wife went with me for her first time a few weeks ago and shot the revolver. This is her first time ever shooting a pistol. Almost every one of her groupings (6 to grouping) would fit inside my hand perimeter. She was as good or better than I was. But then she was a Kansas farm girl so I'd sort expected she'd know how to shoot. She had shot rifles as a kid and teenager.
 

It was a good reminder for me to behave myself.  

Jeff

[EL34]

Some of those shots were slow aims and then some were blasting off 3 to 5 rounds very quickly
I wanted to see how I did squeezing off severals rounds quickly

[tubenit]

some were blasting off 3 to 5 rounds very quickly

Ok, that even more impressive!  Cool

[John]

I'm no expert by any measure, but it sounds like you're on the right track. IMO, biggest mistake I've made early on (with semi-auto) was shooting too quickly just cuz it's so much fun. But every shot adds to your muscle memory, and shooting fast teaches bad habits. Starting slow, and watching the front sight is great practice. When you get to where you can see the sight begin to lift, it's a great feeling.

One thing I struggled with when I was still shooting regularly was shooting low and left, caused by "milking the grip". Apparently it's a common thing with the Glock pistols; mine's a G19.

No surprise your wife was so good, 'nit. Women usually shoot better than men, not sure why. And the group next to you... well, the .45 recoils much more than the 9mm, which is why so many people that insist on having one can't shoot it fer shit.  Don't get me wrong, I know plenty of guys who can dot the i with theirs, and plenty more who can't hit a barn with it. My favorite pistol is a .22 revolver. But haven't shot any pistols for a couple years now.

[jjasilli]

Your shooting is good.  Probably the best way to judge is to google NRA or State rules for pistol competition.   You will see distances, target   & target ring sizes; and scoring rules.  Also, categories of accomplishment by group sizes, which translates into scores.  Then you can score your own targets for an objective evaluation.

There's only so much a person can do on their own.  Ultimately it's all about form & consistency, which is hard to evaluate about yourself.  Sometimes working on one aspect of form unknowingly causes some other aspect to degrade.  Suggestions to improve:  make videos of your shooting; a smartphone on a tripod works.  Join a competitive team at your local club. The top shooters will usually give very good advice.  Also, new competitive shooters shouldn't worry about hurting the team's score.  Usually the rules provide that the lowest scores are discarded.

[Ritchie200]

'Nit,
 
THe reason you are better with the revolver is the longer sight radius - longer barrel, greater distance between front and back sights.  There are lots of u-toob videos on shooting, but this guy is the Ritchie Blackmore of pistol shooters, Rob Leatham.  This is one of his interviews on the basics, which, other than the interview location, is very good. 
Rob Leatham - World Champion Pistol Shooter Talks About...Pistol Shooting

Any one of his "Drill of the Month" videos are good too.  Even though they are somewhat competition oriented, they are just good all-around basic principles to good gun control.  Your spreads are still quite good!

Jim

[jjasilli]

Sight radius is a likely factor, but there's many other factors which may or may not be in play.  Different grips.  It's common to torque (twist) a semi-auto upon firing, especially Glocks.  Different reach to trigger.  Different part of trigger finger on trigger.  Trigger pull feels much different; different weight of pull.  Different style sights & sight picture. 

If you have a laser dot projecting device for the semi-auto, use it while dry firing the pistol and watch what the dot does.  (This is useful as a test, but note that it requires focusing on the target instead of on the front sight.)

[Ritchie200]

Been reading that a lot of the firearms manufacturers are not selling to federal, state, or local government agencies in areas that have passed new gun laws against the law abiding.  While that all sounds good, when it comes down to million dollar contracts, that would be a hard pill to swallow....  I hope they hold out, but everyone has to keep the doors open and pay the bills.  We shall see.

Jim

[EL34]

Took my carry concealed course yesterday and got my certificate

Got to go to the sherriff dept to put in my application

[jjasilli]

Got certified as an NRA RSO (Range Safety Officer) this past weekend. 

[EL34]

nice

[tubenit]

OK,  I tried shooting at 21 ft and 28 ft (over half at 28ft).  Most shots were in groups of 5 & fired around 1 per second.

Out of 50 shots, 20 were inside my hand print. 9 were in a bullseye that was 2" x 3".

Starting to make a little progress, I think. I can get back on site in about a second for the most part.

It's fun to be able to shoot that rapidly, but at this juncture .......... I still somewhat prefer a revolver. I think I'd really like a .357 revolver S&W  with 6.5" barrell.

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product4_750001_750051_765944_-1_757903_757767_757751_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y

With respect, Tubenit

[EL34]

Nice!!

I have added some goodies to my AR15
Front grip that doubles as a bi-pod
front pictinny rail
rear pictinny rail extension to raise the scope up
4 x 32 scope
Laser sight with several shapes and green or red laser

Getting ready to head over to the indoor range to sight in the scope and a laser sight

[tubenit]

That is a fierce looking weapon!!!   

I shoot at a indoor range but sure prefer shooting outdoors.

Jeff

[EL34]

Just got back from the range
Got the scope dialed in pretty good

The range only has a 40 yard max range, but I had to use 25 yards to set the scope

Got to shoot off a couple mags each on my Glocks also

The AR15 is really fun to shoot

[tubenit]

Sounds like fun!   

I had a Ruger 7x57 deer rifle that was sighted in well enough for me to drop a buck that was prancing/trotting across a fire lane at my uncle's farm  at 130 yds only using the gun strap for a brace.  It was really windy that day with about 20-30 mph gusts in East Texas.  To be honest, it was somewhat a lucky shot. The deer fell right over and didn't make it 10 ft.

I had used a sand bag to help dial in the sight & I'm thinking I maybe sighted it in at around 70 yds?

Jeff

[jjasilli]

@ EL34:  I figured it wouldn't be long before you started modding & customizing.  One important thing for accuracy is cheek weld*.  Your cheek needs to be firmly against the butt stock, while your eye peers through the sight.  It looks like your scope is the right height for that.  If not, it can be adjusted:  at the buttstock; with riser height; or with scope ring height.  

Your scope setup seems to render the front sight superfluous.  Options are to replace it with a fold down front sight (a new gas block will be needed too); or a new gas block with no front sight.  Then you'll have an extra front sight, with little recourse but to build another AR behind it!  

This weekend my son & I built an upper assembly with a DPMS 18" barrel in .223/5.56 1:8 twist, onto a DPMS Lo Pro upper receiver; with a Hogue rifle-length forend.  A 2-rail gas block & rifle length gas tube were lying around in the parts draw.  The receiver was removed from a DPMS full upper assembly sporting a 16" pencil barrel.  The 16" barrel will now go on a DPMS A2 upper just acquired, for iron sights only.  Another DPMS Lo Pro upper is awaiting a custom Kreiger barrel 28" stainless chambered for 223 match, 1:9 twist.  (Last weekend I electrified a Takamine acoustic guitar for a bartender who books my acoustic duet at a local bar.  This sure is the right Forum.)

We still need free float tubes; bolt carrier assemblies; lower receivers and lower parts.  Everything is mostly unobtanium, but waiting lists and patience is paying off.

*  (N.B. some competition shooters swear by chin weld.  It keeps the head erect.  I never tried it, and never would with a round more powerful than .223 -- I suspect it's a good way to bite off your tongue!)  

@ tubenit I have a 7X57 Mauser Espagnol.  This round has a great reputation for dropping deer in their tracks.  That's my personal experience too.  Works the same on wild boar!

[EL34]

Thanks for the tips

I had watched this video first which covered cheek weld
There some great info in this vid
Set up Your Scope for Success - Rifle Shooting Technique - NSSF Shooting Sportscast

I set up the height and distance away from my eye by closing my eyes and then putting my cheek on the stock and then opening my eyes.

The scope was way too low so I used some shims under the scope and raised it up till the height was right

Then I ordered that riser you see under the scope for the height that I needed.

I had to move the scope that far forward until I got rid of the scope shadow

It's set up nice now

[jjasilli]

That's a very good video.  Some comments.  It uses a bolt action rifle with traditional profile:  the line of bore higher than shoulder mount height .  An AR-15 is in-line: the line of bore = shoulder mount height. This pushes line of sight way higher, about 2-1/4" instead of the traditional 1-1/2".

A cheek riser placed on the buttstock of an AR-15 may interfere with cocking the bolt, especially if the butt is not all the way back with an adjustable buttstock.  You seem to have cured this issue with riser height, though your tastes may change over time.

Note that scope mounting screws and scope rings threads are cut implying the use of cutting oil.  Over time this may interfere with a firm scope mount.  Don't assume that the cutting oil has been removed.  Hence, always first Degrease the screws AND the scope ring threads.  Then apply blue or purple (NEVER red) Loctite to the threads.  Then tighten the scope ring screws to 26 INCH pounds (Not FOOT pounds).  Or follow the instructions in the video to a snug hand tight.  If you crush the scope barrel, you lose.  It is always a good idea to ream & polish the inside of your scope rings, unless you're using Burris Signature rings with the plastic inserts.  These can also be used to compensate for the high AR-15 scope mount with a 15 MOA forward tilt.  My son & I use a double thickness of soda can under the rear scope mount for this.  (If it were me alone, I'd use a beer can.)  Note that this is done between the scope ring and the rail; never inside the ring under the scope.  

The forward scope cant is used so you can look through the center of a high-mounted scope, instead of through the edge of the lens.  Post if you want more info.

Speaking of cant, some shooters prefer to cant an AR-15; i.e., purposefully not hold it perpendicular to the ground.  In that case the scope may be canted the other way, to compensate so that the cross-hairs are perpendicular to the ground when the rifle is at preferred cant.  Note that canting a firearm will alter its point of impact at distance.

[EL34]

Thanks for the info
I knew the first time I looked through the scope I didn't need to raise my cheek 

The video was more useful to me as to how to find the correct height by closing your eyes and then placing your cheek on the stock

[tubenit]

Doug,

Thanks for posting the targets.  I printed off a handful and used them today. My shooting wasn't very good today but I had fun with it.

Last 5 shots I did with shooting about 1 second apart.  27' away. The "blue" ring is slightly larger than a silver dollar.  I tape over holes and use the target for maybe 15+  shots and then grab another one.

It doesn't show up on the scanned target but inside the blue ring, I colored it with a yellow highlighter pen.

Jeff

[EL34]

The targets I gave you are 8 inches across at the outer ring

I'd say your shooting was good enough at 27 feet

If that was a torso or head, you'd be good to go

[jjasilli]

Here's some specific competition pistol target info:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullseye_(shooting_competition)

[tubenit]

My father qualified "expert" in the Air Force with a revolver that I have inherited. I am presuming and wondering if the "expert" that he got was consistent with those definitions/guidelines of expert?  This would have been around '66, I think? 

With respect, Jeff

[jjasilli]

Here's some info on competitive pistol classifications:  http://www.bullseyepistol.com/comp.htm  &  http://www.tts-idpa.net/images/Classifications_and_Divisions.pdf

These are NRA classifications. Military classifications may differ. Also, criteria may have changed over time.

[EL34]

I don't see anything wrong with background checks to weed out mentally unstable people and criminals

But I think Obama and all these other idiots that have some sort of pet gun bill have more up their sleeves than just background checks

[tubenit]

I think Obama and all these other idiots that have some sort of pet gun bill have more up their sleeves than just background checks

Totally agree with that.

Jeff

[Ritchie200]

Who determines what is "mentally unstable"?  No way.  At what criminal offense is the cut-off?  A cop notates that you were belligerent during a traffic stop because you disagreed with him.  Now you are a risk.  Again, no way.  What a slippery slippery slope.  All these rules and new legislation driven by the left agenda to disarm and the right's need to "just do something".  It has been proven over and over that all the legislation, past/present/proposed, would have had absolutely no impact on preventing the tragic shootings - other than making it more difficult for the law abiding to defend themselves.  My goodness, just look at Fort Hood.  The ridiculous policy of no sidearms on base unless you are MP.  How many lives could have been saved had even one been carrying.  They had the same policy over in the sand box.  Unreal...  I hope that has changed.

If these windbags want to make a difference, make the castle law legal everywhere and impenetrable to ANY legal action once innocence is determined - federal, state, local, or private.  Make a CCW interaction to prevent loss of life likewise impenetrable.  In either case the scumbag's family can now sue you into oblivion, just because you prevented some idiot from killing you.  Uphold the laws that are currently on the books would go a long way.  That would be a great job for EH, but he is too busy busting Gibson and old retired orchid growers to be bothered - oh, and sending guns to mexico.  That press conference yesterday by our fertilizer spreader in chief was pathetic grandstanding and manipulation at it's disgusting worst.  I can not imagine the horror and suffering those parents went through - but the left agenda could care less about them.  How sick that was.

Jeff, I have been to car swap meets, Star Trek conventions, horse sales, and yes, gun shows.  They all had people with different interests and motivations and certainly varied degrees of "enthusiasm".  And while I would never dress up in a Jeff Gordon driving suit, as a Klingon, or show up in camo and surplus military garb - I would not consider any of those people a threat to society.  I know people who obsess over every screw and spring in a 1911 pistol like we tweak an amp.  Funning thing is either one can kill you if you do not handle it properly.  The average person thinks we are crazy for our obsession over tubes that can be so dangerous.  I hope you are not confusing enthusiasm with something YOU are not comfortable with.  I have noticed a difference in attitude in gun shops and shows.  People feel threatened by this administration.  It's not a fun purchase any more.  Most people are wondering if a certain firearm will be manufactured in the future?  Will they be legal?  Why the shortages?  Will the SHTF some day?  There are a LOT of folks who understand and take the true meaning of the Second Amendment to heart.  It has nothing to do with hunting.

Jim

[Ritchie200]

You love enthusiasm?  Comeon...you play a Tele!  You expect me to believe that?

I understand your concern.  However, I can go to any number of "health professionals" and lawyers and get social security benefits for any number of "ailments" even though I am fully able bodied.  If it can go in that direction, it can sure go in the other.  You must also remember that one man's extremism is another's patriotic concern.  Until the page is turned on violence, what other protected right will you infringe on?  You see, that is the problem.  There are plenty of laws on the books right now preventing felons from gun ownership.  There are laws protecting us from people with a history of drunk driving, and doctors with "issues".  If they are not enforced, they mean nothing.  If nobody says anything about an at-risk case, they mean nothing.  You are suggesting that I subject my daughter to a background check because I want to give her one of my grandpa's rifles?  I can't sell a friend a rifle?  Oh and I'm sure there will be a substantial costs involved with the checks.  After all, we will need to pay yet another government worker sitting at a desk at city hall as they tabulate and report to whatever government agency that requests.  Oh, the assault rifle thing...  You mean that regular rifle with a pistol grip that looks scary? Come on...

The absolute bottom line is the bad people will not, and do not, follow the law.  As I posted before, none of the current or proposed laws would have done anything to stop the tragedies in the last few years.  Since the 1994 Federal Assault Weapons Ban expired in September 2004 (Remember the scary gun and extra capacity clip law?), murder and overall violent-crime rates have fallen. In 2003, the last full year before the law expired, the U.S. murder rate was 5.7 per 100,000 people, according to the Federal Bureau of Investigation's Uniform Crime Report. By 2011, the murder rate fell to 4.7 per 100,000 people. Remember that just 2.6% of all murders are committed using any type of rifle.

This sounds exactly like what you are asking for:

Government classifies which guns are for "sporting purposes".
All citizens who wished to purchase firearms had to register with officials and have a background check.
Government presumed citizens were hostile and thereby required participation in the gun control law.  Government officials were exempt from the law.
Government has unrestricted power to decide what kinds of firearms could, or could not be owned by private persons.
The types of ammunition that were legal were subject to control by bureaucrats.
Juveniles under 18 years could not buy firearms and ammunition.

Nazi Weapons Act of 1938 (Translated to English)

A free country comes with risks attributed to those freedoms.  Those risks can also come from the abuse of those freedoms or by those who abuse my rights.  I'll take the risk above government control any day.  However, you MUST allow me to protect myself against those who would abuse those freedoms and my rights.  You can't have one without the other.  There is no sliding scale between the two.

I love these quotes:
“Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigues of supporting it.” – Thomas Paine, The Crisis, No. 4, 1777
“the price of liberty is eternal vigilance” and that “liberty can just as easily be lost by neglect from within as by attack from without”  Thurman Sensing

I'll quote another wise man:
"I hate you!  You have ruined my life!  Please send me money for Led Zeppelin tickets..."

Jim

[HotBluePlates]

My father qualified "expert" in the Air Force with a revolver that I have inherited. I am presuming and wondering if the "expert" that he got was consistent with those definitions/guidelines of expert?

It depends on the course of fire, which varies by branch of service. There are often multiple courses of fire with different requirements (and challenges) even within one branch, and for one weapon.

You & I oughta get together to shoot next time I get back in town. 

I've only shot rifles with the Army, but qualified Expert on the 9mm when I was in the Navy, shooting 238 out of a possible 240 points. Their particular course of fire uses a man-sized silhouette, but gives the max 5 points per shot only for the center ring of the target. It also requires timed shots; with the time including drawing from a holster, flipping off safe, firing and flipping back on safe. Typical is 2 shots in 4 seconds, or 4 shots in 6 seconds (which also includes swapping magazines to reload). The Navy course also requires shooting strong hand supported, and weak hand unsupported, at ranges from as short as 7 yards out to 25 yards.

Needless to say, at the time I shot the 238, I was doing a LOT of handgun shooting at the range.

Anyway, I say all that to bring up the point that there are a lot of fine points to work on for target shooting. Stance, grip, trigger squeeze, point-of-aim (which varies with different weapons and distance). And when learning/practicing this stuff, it helps to go and work on only one aspect of shooting at a time, and not really worrying about where you're hitting the target (except as a diagnostic tool for things like "palming," "anticipation," or trigger-pull that pushes the weapon off-target).

And if you're inclined, I still have my reloading press sitting in storage; you can reload spent brass for very much less than buying ammo. I don't have a need for the press or reloading stuff now, so you can have it (you'd just need to get dies appropriate for the calibers you need to reload).

[tubenit]

Excellent, my friend!   Yeah, let's go shoot together!  I'd like that.  Give me a heads up next time you're headed down & have some time and we'll try to make that happen.   I was a much better shot when younger but still enjoy it quite a bit.

Thanks for the info on military shooting.

Best regards, Jeff

[Ritchie200]

"I addressed individuals with specific types mental illness issues and felons of victimizing/violent crimes buying guns specifically at gun shows.  As it currently stands in NC,  there are different guidelines for "private individuals" selling guns at a gun show vs. gun dealers.

That's it! "

Jeff,
I think you are misunderstanding my point - and I don't doubt your support of the 2nd amendment.  If you are a licensed dealer there must be background checks, in the shop or at the show.  If you are an average joe selling a gun or guns from your collection they are not required, at home or at the show.  You are suggesting background checks for everyone because of the reasons you state (mental, criminal, etc.).  I am saying I don't want my daughter to go through that just so the government will ALLOW me give her grandpa's gun - that is ridiculous.  The government does not need to know who has what, when.  I should not need permission to sell my neighbor or even a stranger a gun, as that is my private property.  There are laws on the books preventing criminals from possessing guns.  Just like there are laws on the books preventing drunk drivers from driving or a drug addicted doctor from practicing.  Here is where we part ways...  What can stop that guy from grabbing the car keys or the doc from performing surgery or the felon from stealing a gun?  More laws?  HA!  Giving the government leeway in interpreting some arbitrary psych profile?  Wow....THAT is the slippery slope I am talking about!  At some point we need to take responsibility for calling out the problem child (the drunk with the car keys, the doped out doc, and yes, the whack job with the gun), or we will give it all away.  There is not a law in the world that will prevent those problems.  The only thing you are doing is making it harder for the law abiding and giving the government more control.  No thanks.

I think Yosemite Sam spent most of his time shooting into the air!  I know you can get closer to the target than that!  Speaking of avatars, I suppose you want Ritchie to register his Strat because he was swinging it as a weapon.  And he DID blow up a few amps and cabinets in his time - that's considered being in possession of a Destructive Device and I'm pretty sure he didn't have the proper paperwork.  You know I am just messin' with ya now!   Although Tele registration and confiscation does sound like a plausible solution to protect the innocent.

THe next time you make it to St. Louis your not going to call me, are you....

Jim

[EL34]

I don't think it's all that difficult to weed out convicted felons and mentally unstable people.

If you have been hauled away for murdering dogs and cats, beating your wife, or addicted to crack or meth, you are mentally unstable in my book

That sort of thing just needs to be sorted out so there are some rules on who should be able to purchase a gun

[Ritchie200]

Jeff,

The VFW Hall or my basement, that's just geography?

To quote JRR Tolkien, I will diminish and go into the west, and remain a Ritchie fan!

Oh man, Shiner Bock?!?!?!....

Jim

[John]

This is one of those topics where I really can see both sides. On one hand, I fully understand the emotions that run rampant after a mass shooting. And I think it's criminally negligent to have guns in the house when you have a mentally disturbed person living there (Sandyhook). OTOH, life itself is a risk. A thousand people die every day because of smoking, alcohol abuse, distracted drivers, and pure bad luck.

I get exactly where Tubenit is coming from, as I've been in gun shops and felt that a couple of the guys there weren't exactly, uh, top shelf.   There will always be irresponsible gun owners and sellers, just like there are irresponsible dog owners, drivers, and drinkers.

Here in Maryland, O'Malley is jumping all over the Sandyhook thing to push the gun control agenda, and that's what I find disgusting. Pols from both parties use tragedies to ram their agenda down our throats. (and yes, I also heartily disagreed with the Patriot Act when it was passed)

So far, there have been no calls to get those pressure cooker bombs off the streets.

[EL34]

And fertilizer

Need to get rid of that cause you can make bombs and kill people

These gun control idiots all believe that it's the thing that's killing people, not the people

You can dream up a million ways to mass murder with all kinds of items

Need to just dispose of everything just in case someone figures out how to kill people with it

[Ritchie200]

I understand.  We want to keep the bad stuff away from the bad people.  If someone came to me with statistics that said XX% of murders were committed with a gun bought at a gun show, I'd say we need to do something - but that percentage better be pretty darn high. I GUARANTEE you that if the gun control nuts could even PLANT some evidence to support that they would.  Plus only 2.7% of all murders are committed with a rifle. There is nothing to support the proposed laws.  It is just another rights grab by the left.

Ok, I promise, I'm done....  Sorry to anyone that I may have offended.  The constitution and our rights is sort of a hot spot with me.

Jim

[zendragon63]

You two aren't so different--if Richie had a Strat in his left hand, he would look kinda like Yosemite Sam... 

FWIW, while there is still a second amendment, I will own a gun. If they manage to do away with it, I will still own a gun.

Regards

dennis

[kagliostro]

A very simply but may be effective DIY accessory 

http://matthewcanning.net/2010/12/anneal-before-me-and-pray/

K

[jjasilli]

A very simply but may be effective DIY accessory 

http://matthewcanning.net/2010/12/anneal-before-me-and-pray/

K

Love the pun on Anneal before me!!!   

This set-up is very clever & seems effective.  But, an awful lot of time & attention gets devoted to each individual case.  One solution is cases in a line, or on a revolving wheel, like a record player.  Each neck gets heated, then the case gets dropped or knocked-off into a pot of water.  Clever automated DIY solutions can be seen on youtube. Temperature is not hyper-critical, so the case neck gets heated to a dull red glow in a darkened room (so the dull glow is visible).

I have not yet felt the need to anneal case necks.  But if supply remains low it may become more prevalent. 

[jjasilli]

I don't think it's all that difficult to weed out convicted felons and mentally unstable people.

If you have been hauled away for murdering dogs and cats, beating your wife, or addicted to crack or meth, you are mentally unstable in my book

That sort of thing just needs to be sorted out so there are some rules on who should be able to purchase a gun

The devil is in the details.  A criminal conviction in the public record is the easy part; and there's already background checks for that (for dealers).  But your language, as stated, would further apply to a arrests or even to mere accusations.  That quickly gets more problematical.  All an anti-gun person would need to do is accuse you of something; then you can't own a firearm.

As to the mentally unstable, confinement to a mental institution would be an easy objective screening test.  But that rarely happens anymore.  Disturbed people often are treated privately & medical records are secret.  Should regular doctors in private practice be required to serve as agents of the state to deprive people, in advance of their having done anything wrong, of their civil rights?

Unfortunately, it's easy to say that disturbed people should not have firearms, but hard to put into practice.  If it were easy to do, like a felony conviction, it probably would have been done already.

[jjasilli]

I honestly was a little creeped out by quite a few of the people that I saw there [gun show].

Honestly, that's why there' a Bill of Rights to the Constitution. Like freedom of speech, and the right to public assembly (which also take place at gun shows), the right to keep and bear arms belongs to each individual (Heller decision).  The Constitution makes no exception for creepy people.  Rights are universally guaranteed precisely because some people will be singled out.  If anyone is to be deprived of their rights, it must be for good cause shown; and not because someone else doesn't like the way it feels.

[Ritchie200]

Went to a gun show today.   Couple of observations .....................

3)  I strongly dislike government intrusion in my life.  Having said that, I think it would be a least worst choice to have some
     mechanism  for back ground checks at these gun shows.  
    
     There were some individuals there whom I would NOT want to have some of the guns  they were walking around with.  

5)  but my gut level reaction was that
   there were some dangerous people there (not just in their ability but in their thinking also).

     In fact, I would be somewhat shocked if there were not drug dealers, criminals and mentally unstable individuals there. And I could be
     wrong, but my intuition says different.


With respect, Tubenit

"I am not saying that the "creepy" people shouldn't have guns. Never said that."

If this is what you meant, I think your words in the "Gun Show" post say otherwise.  That first post is what caused me to respond.  And I think that is what jjasilli is saying too.  You have to admit there is a certain dichotomy to your statements!

My big question is from your statement in #3.  Why should there be choice anyway?  Why?  Why do we HAVE to do something?  Show me stats to back up anything we would HAVE to do.

As far as the mental health "thing".  I will go back to my original statement.  Would you violate hipaa laws to report someone?  How many personal rights would you ignore to achieve this end?  Again, I can go to any doctor or lawyer and be declared mentally unfit for work and can collect SS until the cows come home - even though I am more than able.  We all know its a game.  A game that can very EASILY be turned around against me by some healthcare "professional" or administration with an agenda.  Letting the government determine some arbitrary level of mental health is absolutely ludicrous!  I'd be willing to bet that I could get a dozen shrinks on one side claiming simple antisocial behavior for a case and yet another dozen thoroughly convinced that it is a dangerous psychosis.

And I am not dissing your profession or opinion - I have great respect for what you do.  However, my wife has worked in healthcare her entire adult life - I have a VERY good reference for government hypocrisy when it comes to healthcare.  To allow that to somehow influence my 2nd Amendment rights scares me to no end.

Jim

[tubenit]

Jim,  I respect your position and arguments also. I enjoy your friendship.  We have differing opinions and vantage points of perspective.

You seem to be arguing against positions that are not ones that I hold. For whatever reason that I have communicated or listened ineffectively, I truly apologize. I think we are on very different AM/FM wave lengths and not connecting with what the other is saying at all.

If I have offended someone or presented in a contentious manner, I am sorry.  At this juncture, I am going to bow out of this particular discussion.

With respect, Jeff

[Ritchie200]

I am definitely FM album rock oriented! 
I think with your Tele, you are AM pop top 40!

Peace, my friend!
Jim

[silverfox]

Ya know, having conversations with people you never see face to face can lead to all sorts of assumptions like- I wonder what these people are really like (so and so seems like a real A$$), what will they do if this or that happens; If I were in a room talking with these people would we get along. Without a doubt now I believe I know.

WE'D GET ALONG FAMOUSLY!!!!!!!

I was looking for a place to post some homemade triode information when I stumbled upon this room. Yahoo Cowboys!

[tubenit]

OK,  HotBluePlates was in town and we went shooting.   It was a VERY humbling day for me.  

This is HBP's grouping with my pistol (which he was unfamiliar with) at maybe 21-22'

In comparison, I had one of the worst days of shooting and grouping shots.  Let's just say that in comparison, my groupings were closer
to the size of a large Frisbee.
 

HBP consistently was grouping shots within maybe a 2" circle.  

Fun shooting and hanging out with him!  

With respect, Tubenit